Notices
Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L) Diesel Topics Only

Hard brakes

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 1, 2018 | 07:42 PM
  #1  
cadunkle's Avatar
cadunkle
Thread Starter
|
Cargo Master
20 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Shutterbug
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,298
Likes: 26
From: NJ
Hard brakes

'86 F-350 4x4, brake pedal is very hard. Somewhat better than when there is no vacuum, but power assist is marginal. Vacuum pump is about 1-2 years old and pulling 20"+ vacuum with reasonable recovery time. System holds vacuum for quite a while sitting with engine off. Engine has been off for 20+ mins and still above 15". Replaced booster today and seems slightly better but still not what I would expect or remember from a few months ago when I last drove this truck. Booster is same brand and model as I put on my 460 truck last week (old booster on that was leaking bad, causing misfire at light load and had negligible assist), but while the 460 truck has very easy pedal effort on the brakes this IDI still take a lot of pedal effort, as somewhere between manual brakes and worse than manual brakes (poor pin location on power brake pedals). The IDI should be pulling more vacuum with a pump than a 460 with a bit of overlap on the cam.

For context I just got done swapping in a rebuilt 7.3, used the same vacuum pump that was on the old 6.9. Vacuum line goes from pump to a tree on the firewall/cowl area, out of that one large hose goes to the booster and tees off to the cruise control. When pulling the check valve from the booster there is vacuum there, feels fine by the finger test. No lines between the pump and booster are kinked. When I pump the pedal I see vacuum drop then climb. It feels like there's more assist when pushing the pedal when stopped, but when moving assist is minimal. The truck stops fine but requires monumental pedal effort to stop in a hurry from higher speeds.

Any ideas?
 
Reply
Old Jul 2, 2018 | 06:12 AM
  #2  
Dieselamour's Avatar
Dieselamour
Laughing Gas
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 35
From: Virginia
Originally Posted by cadunkle
'86 F-350 4x4, brake pedal is very hard. Somewhat better than when there is no vacuum, but power assist is marginal. Vacuum pump is about 1-2 years old and pulling 20"+ vacuum with reasonable recovery time. System holds vacuum for quite a while sitting with engine off. Engine has been off for 20+ mins and still above 15". Replaced booster today and seems slightly better but still not what I would expect or remember from a few months ago when I last drove this truck. Booster is same brand and model as I put on my 460 truck last week (old booster on that was leaking bad, causing misfire at light load and had negligible assist), but while the 460 truck has very easy pedal effort on the brakes this IDI still take a lot of pedal effort, as somewhere between manual brakes and worse than manual brakes (poor pin location on power brake pedals). The IDI should be pulling more vacuum with a pump than a 460 with a bit of overlap on the cam.

For context I just got done swapping in a rebuilt 7.3, used the same vacuum pump that was on the old 6.9. Vacuum line goes from pump to a tree on the firewall/cowl area, out of that one large hose goes to the booster and tees off to the cruise control. When pulling the check valve from the booster there is vacuum there, feels fine by the finger test. No lines between the pump and booster are kinked. When I pump the pedal I see vacuum drop then climb. It feels like there's more assist when pushing the pedal when stopped, but when moving assist is minimal. The truck stops fine but requires monumental pedal effort to stop in a hurry from higher speeds.

Any ideas?
I think your vac assist booster is supposed to fall and stop when you start it. Back in the day, MD inspections required vehicle off, pump the brake several times and WITHOUT removing your foot pressure, start the vehicle. Upon starting, the pedal should fall and stop. Aside from obvious fluid and vacuum leaks, pedal going to the floor, or bypassing, I do not remember a stated minimal/maximum drop. I remember most vehicles dropping 1 to 2 inches.

I have also seen frozen wheel cylinders due to moisture and rust. Brake systems MUST be flushed since the fluid is hygroscopic. If your fluid is dark or black you are way past due.

Are your rear shoes contaminated with grease, oil, or fluid?
 
Reply
Old Jul 2, 2018 | 09:26 AM
  #3  
Olds64's Avatar
Olds64
Logistics Pro
5 Year Member
Shutterbug
Liked
Loved
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 3,959
Likes: 512
From: Edmond, OK
Originally Posted by Dieselamour
I think your vac assist booster is supposed to fall and stop when you start it.
x2

That's how I test a vacuum booster and it always seems to give good results.

You could always pull the brake booster off of your gas truck and test it. Perhaps you got a bad parts when you replaced the one on your IDI.
 
Reply
Old Jul 5, 2018 | 11:59 AM
  #4  
DarkOverCast's Avatar
DarkOverCast
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,036
Likes: 5
The power boost from my replacement booster a year ago also didn't seem near as good as the old one.

Before I could lock up all four if I wanted to, now it still brakes hard, but has too much resistance to get that much pressure on them.

I changed the boost/master cylinder both with the correct heavy duty type, and ended up changing the vacuum pump a few months later.

I guess this is why people go hydro boost, but if I had a choice I'd try to get a 10.5 rear end with disc brakes and call it a day.
 
Reply
Old Jul 5, 2018 | 01:15 PM
  #5  
Dieselamour's Avatar
Dieselamour
Laughing Gas
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,106
Likes: 35
From: Virginia
Have you observed how much fluid comes out of the wheel cylinder and caliper bleeders? Front brakes perform upwards of 75% or more of the breaking due weight shift and nose dive. With rear drums, the proportioning valve throttles the rears depending on nose dive and rear lift.

The proportioning valve is installed on vehicle's with front disc, rear drumbrake systems. They provide balanced braking during sudden, hard braking by restricting fluid pressure to the rear brakes. This helps prevent rear wheel lock up as the vehicle's weight is shifted toward the front wheels."
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Brynjaminjones
1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks
5
Mar 1, 2019 01:45 PM
94_idi_turbo
Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L)
5
Jun 26, 2014 05:24 PM
LSO1123
Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L)
20
Nov 28, 2012 08:22 AM
91dirtydiesel
Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Tires, & Wheels
17
Jul 30, 2009 02:54 PM
csangster
Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Tires, & Wheels
3
Sep 30, 2008 10:00 AM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:04 PM.

story-0
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath

Slideshow: Called the Fortress, the 850-horsepower pickup combines Raptor underpinnings with military-inspired features, survival equipment, and a starting price of $285,000.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-30 18:33:59


VIEW MORE
story-1
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer

Slideshow: 10 most expensive Ford trucks ever sold on Bring a Trailer.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-27 16:24:34


VIEW MORE
story-2
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)

Here's everything that has changed for the latest model year.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-27 16:17:28


VIEW MORE
story-3
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies

Slideshow: Top 10 Ford truck tragedies.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-18 19:34:33


VIEW MORE
story-4
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make

And it might be even better than that.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-18 19:26:42


VIEW MORE
story-5
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!

Slideshow: Does lowering an F-150 Lobo RUIN the ride quality?

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-18 19:20:37


VIEW MORE
story-6
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

Slideshow: Ford's bizarre fishing-themed Explorer concept has resurfaced after spending decades largely forgotten.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:07:46


VIEW MORE
story-7
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

Slideshow: The 10 best Ford truck engines we miss the most.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 13:09:47


VIEW MORE
story-8
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

Slideshow: first look at the 810 hp 2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road!

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-12 12:50:07


VIEW MORE
story-9
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

Slideshow: Everything You Need to Know about the 2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-07 17:51:06


VIEW MORE