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Water pump stud broken flush with block

  #1  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:07 PM
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Water pump stud broken flush with block

1994 F-150 5.0 E4OD RWD
I had a water pump stud break off flush with the block. I have managed to get the timing cover off. Now I am trying to figure out my best option since I figure I will only get one shot at getting this right. I tried a removal tool, which broke the tool and some of the bolt. I am thinking drilling it out and installing a Helicoil would be the strongest repair. Drilling and tapping would work if I could use a different size bolt, but that is not an option. I don't think drilling and tapping the same size would result in strong threads since it is almost guaranteed to overlap the original threads.

Has anyone done a fix for this and put miles on the repair? I have seen some old posts, but nothing regarding using a helicoil.

I have already purchased the Felpro timing cover gasket kit, and I will be changing the timing set before reassembly.

When cleaning the gasket between the oil pan and timing cover I found a metal "gasket core" that appears to run the length of the oil pan. Is this normal?

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:13 PM
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I feel your pain. I had one break off once. I was able to use a small torch and warm the area and use a small punch and was able to rotate it out. Lucky, I was.

Try a EZ lock thread-sert. Drill it larger/tap, then screw the insert in. I know there is not much block thickness, but for what it holds it likely will work.




If the pan gasket was rubber(stock should be), then it likely has a steel core to keep its shape.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Freightrain View Post
I feel your pain. I had one break off once. I was able to use a small torch and warm the area and use a small punch and was able to rotate it out. Lucky, I was.

Try a EZ lock thread-sert. Drill it larger/tap, then screw the insert in. I know there is not much block thickness, but for what it holds it likely will work.




If the pan gasket was rubber(stock should be), then it likely has a steel core to keep its shape.
Thanks! That looks like a much easier choice than a helicoil. One thing I was trying to figure out was how much thickness I have to work with in this area. Does the hole open up inside the block or is it threaded the entire length of the stud?

Thanks again for the info on the gasket. I figured it was normal, but I did not see anything about it in the literature. I just wanted to be sure it would not mess up the timing cover gasket kit.
 
  #4  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:27 PM
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Pretty sure the holes are threaded through into the waterjacket area(thus the bolt rust/expands and is hard to remove after 30 yrs). Going by faded memory, it's only like 1/2" thick in those areas. Might need to shorten the insert so it is flush once screwed in. Or grind it flat if it still protrudes "if" it bottoms out in the waterjacket/cylinder wall.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:14 PM
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The bolts on the 5.0 goes into the water jacket, the 5.8 does not.
Same on flywheel bolts.
Use a sealant on the threads if into the fluids.

The factory also uses rtv on the harmonic balancer bolt and washer to keep oil in
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Freightrain View Post
Pretty sure the holes are threaded through into the waterjacket area(thus the bolt rust/expands and is hard to remove after 30 yrs). Going by faded memory, it's only like 1/2" thick in those areas. Might need to shorten the insert so it is flush once screwed in. Or grind it flat if it still protrudes "if" it bottoms out in the waterjacket/cylinder wall.
*I'm not sure what happened with this edit*
I will use anti-seize where the stud screws into the block. I have a rust prevention paint I used on the radiator support that could help. What else would work? Maybe a gel or tape thread locker?
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by McLeod View Post
The bolts on the 5.0 goes into the water jacket, the 5.8 does not.
Same on flywheel bolts.
Use a sealant on the threads if into the fluids.

The factory also uses rtv on the harmonic balancer bolt and washer to keep oil in
That explains why I found it. I though someone had been in there before me. This forum proved to be the best asset again after finding the trick of wedging a screwdriver between the alternator bracket and harmonic balancer to hold the crank while getting that bolt off.

What kind of sealant would be able to stay on after being screwed in, yet still not mix with the antifreeze, besides a paint? Maybe a thread locker gel or tape?
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:23 PM
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Teflon paste might help. Just keeping the coolant system cleaned will help. When no one changes antifreeze for 20 yrs, it tends to loose it's rust inhibitors and things like this happen.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Freightrain View Post
Teflon paste might help. Just keeping the coolant system cleaned will help. When no one changes antifreeze for 20 yrs, it tends to loose it's rust inhibitors and things like this happen.
I figure that is the root of the problem. My mom drove the truck for a few years with a leaking radiator. After replacing it I noticed air still getting in the system and moisture where the cover meets the block. Since I really don't use the truck often I put it off for years. Now I'm paying for it, yet I hear I am lucky to only have one break. I have a new water pump, thermostat, and radiator ready to go in once I get this done.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:01 PM
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Yes, when they are stiff to turn, you have to just keep wiggling it in hopes it might come loose. If you just lean on the wrench........you're done!
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:08 PM
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I know you said it's broken off flush, but could you put a nut on top of it and tack weld the inside of the nut to the bolt???
If so, this will heat it up to help loosen it as well as give you something to put a wrench on to try to back it out.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikulh View Post
I know you said it's broken off flush, but could you put a nut on top of it and tack weld the inside of the nut to the bolt???
If so, this will heat it up to help loosen it as well as give you something to put a wrench on to try to back it out.
I've had the most success with this method.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hadfield4wd View Post
I've had the most success with this method.
It is flush. Not even one thread exposed. Also, some of it broke when I tried using my extractor. Judging by the amount of rust I had to clean off of the stud inside the timing cover this thing is not going to move. When I was taking the water pump out the stud just slid out. I recently had a new A/C system installed, and the resulting work left me questioning the competency of the mechanic. I am wondering if it broke off while he was hanging the A/C bracket from it.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:28 PM
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If the stud goes into the coolant 1/2 inch inside the block, wouldn't it be easier to drive the stud into the block and take it out from the inside? There is no rust to fight with this way. Just an idea.

Would replacing the standard water pump bolts with zinc coated bolts help?
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:43 PM
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You talking about screwing it in? Not sure it is short enough to fall out the back. Better to center punch it and drill it. Maybe if you drill it .201(for 1/4-20), you might be able to heat, chip the broken pieces out and salvage the threads? If not, then see if the thread insert will fit?

Maybe get grade 8, they might not rust as fast, but if you get clean coolant I doubt the time you have it you would have any more issues anyway.
 

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