Hello towing forum, I need some guidance/advice. Long time Ford super duty owner, had a 1996 F350 CC LB SRW 7.3L that rusted out on me and went with a used 2013 F250 CC SB 6.7L thinking that it would have enough beef to pull a decent 5th wheel in the future (15,900 rated). Now during 5th wheel shopping being told that max. payload/hitch weight is in the 2k range including passengers which will severely limit the size of the 5th wheel I could pull and was told that the Mfr.'s have been fudging the numbers on these ratings. Frustrated as it seems the new 1/2 tons out there seem to be rated in the same area as to payload and towing as the super duty's which seems to blur the line between the two lines and especially the 1/2 and 3/4 tons. After the conversations and kicking myself for the 3/4 ton SB purchase, wanted to reach out to the experts and see if the payload issue was true and where I could get the true payload ratings for the different models when shopping for a new or new old truck as it sounds per the threads that I would need to be looking at a >2013 F350 CC LB SRW/DRW or F450 CC LB DRW to be able to pull a 5th wheel >15k with a hitch weight >2400lbs with room to spare for cargo, passengers, etc.

 

The diesel engine eats up a lot of the payload. That's why a 3/4 ton diesel and 1/2 ton gas can be in the same ballpark with regard to payload.

 

I learned the hard way (too much trailer for a 3/4-ton diesel) and had to upgrade the truck. In my opinion, I'm not sure why any of the manufacturers make 3/4-ton diesels - unless it's to satisfy the younger guys with too much testosterone. A diesel 3/4-ton will pull a house off its foundation, but you can't put the weight of the house on the rear axle. The most critical specification is to stay within your rear axle and tire ratings. The CAT scale is your friend, too. Fuel and load up the truck and take it to the nearest truck stop. There are three plates on a CAT scale - one for the front (steer) axle of the truck, one for the rear (drive) axle of the truck and a big plate for the trailer axles. Pull onto the front two plates making sure the front and rear axles of the truck are on two separate plates. Add 150 - 200 lbs. to the scale weight for the rear axle to account for a standard fifth wheel hitch. Subtract that number from the GVWRR (gross vehicle weight rating, rear) on the door sticker and you'll have the max loaded pin weight for a fifth wheel. Multiply that by four (most fifth wheels put about 23% of their GVWR on the pin) and you'll have a rough guesstimate for the GVWR of fifth wheels you can consider.

Rob

 

Beginning to think the same thing as to the 3/4 ton's as you could buy a new F150 with similar ratings that would get better mileage albeit without the same torque. Deceptive numbers given the expectations for hauling and towing with the 3/4 and diesel engine.

 

Oh, the 3/4 Ton payload numbers are true......ask me how I know! At any rate, a trailer that is right at 16K lbs, will put at least 3200 lbs of pin weight on your truck...maybe more. Then the hitch (another 175 lbs), so you are going to most likely be North of 3400 lbs BEFORE you start adding in the driver weight, passenger(s) weight, and everything else that goes either in and/or on the truck....tools, firewood, grill, whatever. It's pretty easy to see that you are in Dually territory with a trailer that big. You might find a SRW 1 Ton that is stripped way down....single cab, 2WD, XL, etc. That would get you close, but almost no one wants that kind of truck anymore.

And before you ask....my 2011 F250, Crew Cab, 4x4 Diesel short bed had 2148 lbs of payload capacity......and it was an XLT....not a Lariat or King Ranch, which would be even less payload!

 

Skip the F-350 SRW as it is only about 700 lbs over the F-250 payload numbers. Big 5ers require DRW setups to be happy. The F-450 has a better turning radius on the wide track front end.

Griz

 

Yeah, if you want to keep your F250, you must go lighter with your 5ver. Much shorter and lite built. If you want to stick to a 15.5k 5ver, a Dually is a must. A F350 SWR is fine too, but only if you're not going above 36 ft. length and a lower pin weight. That's the way it is.

 

Best thing to do at this point is load the truck with as much stuff as you would normally carry and take it to a cat scale.

Get the steer and drive axle ratings. Then compare that against the front and rear axle ratings. Subtract the difference. That is payload.

Then take that number against your tire ratings. Whichever is the lesser is what you can use. DOT care about registration and axle/tire ratings. The other numbers don't mean much aside from registration and taxes.

Take a look at your requirements for your state on your class of license as well. More than likely, you are fine and with RV's most info is exempt.

 

Trucks from the factory are limited in axle ratings by the weakest link in the system, which is usually the load rating on the tires. If you need to step up in payload, a dually is really the right answer. Or a truck with load range F/G tires, which is going to put you in a dually anyways. No one is selling a SRW truck with load range F/G tires from the factory.

 

That is not how to get your payload. If you add the GAWR together of some SRW trucks, you'll get over 2000# more than your GVWR.

Payload capacity is the GVWR of the truck - it's weight. For a real-world answer, drive over the scale loaded, and subtract that number from the GVWR. A new nicely loaded F250/F350 6.7 4.4 crew long bed will weigh around 8200#. Add a couple of passengers and a 5th wheel hitch, and you're around 8700# (more with a family full of kids).

Real-world payload rating... F250 10,000 - 8700 = 1300; F350 11,500 - 8700 = 2800.

My "light" 40' fifth wheel with a 12709# dry-weight and 1740# pin (on the marketing material) ended up weighing 15,300 loaded with a 2800# pin. After going through this exercise myself, I am very glad I bought a F450. After two close calls from very careless drivers this year, I'm sure glad I'm not right at my truck's limit.

 

 

Here was my 08 F250 with my 5th wheel. I carried a 12K registration on the truck. Trailer GVW is just under 16K

 

Just because you saw 4 F250s pulling those trailers, doesn't mean they weren't having issues....or that they were even smart enough about towing to realize they might be having problems. Seeing someone towing something that causes their truck to be overloaded (over the rated payload capacity, still doesn't make it OK! Did you ask each and everyone of them? How do you know they weren't having issues?.....and again...would they even know?

And 2800 lbs of pin weight ISN'T peanuts if you have an F250 that has 2100-2200 lbs of payload.....which many of them do if they are 4x4, diesel, Crew Cab, and XLT and up trim packages.

Payload capacity is the GVWR of the truck...minus...the actual weight of the truck!

 

 

I've said this before, there are many people that tow overloaded for various reasons. Some simply refuse to face the fact that they are overloaded and basically stick their head into the sand.....out of sight, out of mind mentality. There are others that really just don't know. They were told by someone...anyone...you're ok, just drive it and have fun. They never bother to educate themselves about towing, towing capacities, hitch or pin weights, payloads, etc., they just believe that the person that told them it's OK, knows what they are talking about....when the very real possibility exists that they may know even less than the guy doing the towing. Truck salesmen and RV salesmen....oh, and neighbors and brother-in-laws are usually guilty of this too! Then, there are the ones that KNOW that they are overloaded, but they just don't care....screw it, I've never crashed yet so I must be OK. So what if my truck's payload capacity is 2500 lbs and I've got 3500 lbs on it. I put airbags on it, it doesn't sag/drag the rear bumper when loaded....I'm good!

Each and every one of them have their reason(s), but the fact remains, numbers don't lie and overloaded is overloaded. The ones that truly don't know (we were all new at the towing thing at one time or another), I will do my best to try and educate them. Many times, folks like me are then called "The Weight Police" by the ones that choose to ignore weight capacities and try to justify how and why they are OK towing overloaded....just a short trip, I've added air bags, I "KNOW" my truck has more capacity than the yellow/white sticker says it does, blah, blah, blah...those stickers are for warranty purposes.