04 no injector buzz
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Likes: 1
From: on the river
04 no injector buzz
So i have an 04 and it will crank but not start there is NO injector buzz at key on, no DTC it did have a p0341 checked harness and even replaced CMP still no luck. so far i have these numbers,
FICM logic 11.5 before crank 10.5 cranking
FICM main 48/47.5
FICM sync 0/1
ICP VOLT .26/1.16
CMP CKP sync 0/1
Battery voltage 12 and cranking go's down slow to 10
Crank RPM 160 I know that's kinda low batts are on the charger all this cranking is killing them.
Unplugged icp and cranked no start left it unplugged and unplugged the EBP and cranked no change. Before it died I do remember hearing the key on injector buzz getting kinda weak in the days before, batts are 1 1/2 years old I replace every 2 years. I have been working with bismic on this and we have had no luck the FICM has been swapped out to a differnt one off of a donor truck still no start no inj buzz. checked all fuses everything is checking out fine what am i missing???
FICM logic 11.5 before crank 10.5 cranking
FICM main 48/47.5
FICM sync 0/1
ICP VOLT .26/1.16
CMP CKP sync 0/1
Battery voltage 12 and cranking go's down slow to 10
Crank RPM 160 I know that's kinda low batts are on the charger all this cranking is killing them.
Unplugged icp and cranked no start left it unplugged and unplugged the EBP and cranked no change. Before it died I do remember hearing the key on injector buzz getting kinda weak in the days before, batts are 1 1/2 years old I replace every 2 years. I have been working with bismic on this and we have had no luck the FICM has been swapped out to a differnt one off of a donor truck still no start no inj buzz. checked all fuses everything is checking out fine what am i missing???
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,922
Likes: 3,640
Have you double checked the FICM connectors (are they in tight)? Might need to check the injector harness continuity.
The fact that you don't hear any injector buzzing is indicative of a fueling issue and it is hard to imagine all 8 injectors are bad (and we are presuming the issue isn't in the FICM since a known good one did not help).
Did you do any of the CMP harness and CMP sensor tests that I sent you in the PMs?
Hopefully others will jump in on this for you.
The fact that you don't hear any injector buzzing is indicative of a fueling issue and it is hard to imagine all 8 injectors are bad (and we are presuming the issue isn't in the FICM since a known good one did not help).
Did you do any of the CMP harness and CMP sensor tests that I sent you in the PMs?
Hopefully others will jump in on this for you.
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Likes: 1
From: on the river
Have you double checked the FICM connectors (are they in tight)? Might need to check the injector harness continuity.
The fact that you don't hear any injector buzzing is indicative of a fueling issue and it is hard to imagine all 8 injectors are bad (and we are presuming the issue isn't in the FICM since a known good one did not help).
Did you do any of the CMP harness and CMP sensor tests that I sent you in the PMs?
Hopefully others will jump in on this for you.
The fact that you don't hear any injector buzzing is indicative of a fueling issue and it is hard to imagine all 8 injectors are bad (and we are presuming the issue isn't in the FICM since a known good one did not help).
Did you do any of the CMP harness and CMP sensor tests that I sent you in the PMs?
Hopefully others will jump in on this for you.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,922
Likes: 3,640
The reason for the CMP tests is that I am not a big fan of aftermarket sensors. It is an area where OEM is best IMO. There is a thread currently on another forum where a guy actually does have 8 bad injectors. He had a few spares and they buzz when installed, the 8 installed didn't. He had recently bought the truck used though (IIRC). That makes more sense to find all injectors going bad pretty much at the same time on a used truck purchase that you don't know the history on. That said, I really am questioning the CMP harness.
Did you ever track down the vreference voltage? What scan tool are you using? How old are your injectors, are they original?
Did you ever track down the vreference voltage? What scan tool are you using? How old are your injectors, are they original?
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Likes: 1
From: on the river
The reason for the CMP tests is that I am not a big fan of aftermarket sensors. It is an area where OEM is best IMO. There is a thread currently on another forum where a guy actually does have 8 bad injectors. He had a few spares and they buzz when installed, the 8 installed didn't. He had recently bought the truck used though (IIRC). That makes more sense to find all injectors going bad pretty much at the same time on a used truck purchase that you don't know the history on. That said, I really am questioning the CMP harness.
Did you ever track down the vreference voltage? What scan tool are you using? How old are your injectors, are they original?
Did you ever track down the vreference voltage? What scan tool are you using? How old are your injectors, are they original?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,922
Likes: 3,640
Originally you said the code was P0431 and called it a cam sensor code. I asked if it was really P0341. Could you confirm that?
Also, in checking the resistance of the CMP, what value did you get?
(Key OFF, Disconnect the PCM engine connector, Measure the resistance between the PCM engine connector pin 31, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 43, harness side)
Then there are some tests in the link I sent on the CMP signal getting to the FICM
SHORT TO VOLTAGE
Key OFF.
Disconnect the PCM engine harness connector.
Disconnect the FICM harness connector C.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
SHORT TO GROUND
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
SIGNAL FOR AN OPEN
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 20, harness side.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63064&d=1350773182
Also, in checking the resistance of the CMP, what value did you get?
(Key OFF, Disconnect the PCM engine connector, Measure the resistance between the PCM engine connector pin 31, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 43, harness side)
Then there are some tests in the link I sent on the CMP signal getting to the FICM
SHORT TO VOLTAGE
Key OFF.
Disconnect the PCM engine harness connector.
Disconnect the FICM harness connector C.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
SHORT TO GROUND
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
SIGNAL FOR AN OPEN
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 20, harness side.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=63064&d=1350773182
Thread Starter
|
Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Likes: 1
From: on the river
Originally you said the code was P0431 and called it a cam sensor code. I asked if it was really P0341. Could you confirm that?
Also, in checking the resistance of the CMP, what value did you get?
(Key OFF, Disconnect the PCM engine connector, Measure the resistance between the PCM engine connector pin 31, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 43, harness side)
Then there are some tests in the link I sent on the CMP signal getting to the FICM
SHORT TO VOLTAGE
Key OFF.
Disconnect the PCM engine harness connector.
Disconnect the FICM harness connector C.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
SHORT TO GROUND
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
SIGNAL FOR AN OPEN
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 20, harness side.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/a...4&d=1350773182
Also, in checking the resistance of the CMP, what value did you get?
(Key OFF, Disconnect the PCM engine connector, Measure the resistance between the PCM engine connector pin 31, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 43, harness side)
Then there are some tests in the link I sent on the CMP signal getting to the FICM
SHORT TO VOLTAGE
Key OFF.
Disconnect the PCM engine harness connector.
Disconnect the FICM harness connector C.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
SHORT TO GROUND
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
SIGNAL FOR AN OPEN
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 20, harness side.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/a...4&d=1350773182
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,922
Likes: 3,640
Going back and doing a little research, I saw a similar issue on another forum and a Ford Tech (ford_doctor) suggested that an injector coil could be causing a problem and not throwing a code. The suggested troubleshooting was to disconnect injectors one-at-a-time and see if it would then perform the buzz test and start (ie hopefully identify one offending injector).
I guess it could be that the electrical code for the CMP was coincidental and a separate issue.
I guess it could be that the electrical code for the CMP was coincidental and a separate issue.
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Thread Starter
|
Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Likes: 1
From: on the river
Going back and doing a little research, I saw a similar issue on another forum and a Ford Tech (ford_doctor) suggested that an injector coil could be causing a problem and not throwing a code. The suggested troubleshooting was to disconnect injectors one-at-a-time and see if it would then perform the buzz test and start (ie hopefully identify one offending injector).
I guess it could be that the electrical code for the CMP was coincidental and a separate issue.
I guess it could be that the electrical code for the CMP was coincidental and a separate issue.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,922
Likes: 3,640
Definitely could be injectors. As stated earlier though, it is hard to believe that all 8 could essentially go bad at once, but Ford_Doctor indicates it is possible that one (or only a few) could be keeping them all from buzzing. That said, there are several threads on the various 6.0L forums where people experienced the same no-buzz / no-start and it took 8 new injectors for the fix. I sure hate jumping on that bandwagon due to the high cost of that job! If all 8 are having problems (and I don't consider 98k miles as "high mileage"), then I always wonder about a common cause.
Yes, you can connect the injectors uninstalled to see if they buzz.
Yes, you can connect the injectors uninstalled to see if they buzz.
Thread Starter
|
Cross-Country
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 96
Likes: 1
From: on the river
Originally you said the code was P0431 and called it a cam sensor code. I asked if it was really P0341. Could you confirm that?
Also, in checking the resistance of the CMP, what value did you get?
(Key OFF, Disconnect the PCM engine connector, Measure the resistance between the PCM engine connector pin 31, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 43, harness side)
Then there are some tests in the link I sent on the CMP signal getting to the FICM
SHORT TO VOLTAGE
Key OFF.
Disconnect the PCM engine harness connector.
Disconnect the FICM harness connector C.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
ok I got 0 zero for this one.
SHORT TO GROUND
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
this was 1.50
SIGNAL FOR AN OPEN
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 20, harness side.
this one was. 09
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/a...4&d=1350773182
Also, in checking the resistance of the CMP, what value did you get?
(Key OFF, Disconnect the PCM engine connector, Measure the resistance between the PCM engine connector pin 31, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 43, harness side)
Then there are some tests in the link I sent on the CMP signal getting to the FICM
SHORT TO VOLTAGE
Key OFF.
Disconnect the PCM engine harness connector.
Disconnect the FICM harness connector C.
Key ON, engine OFF.
Measure the voltage between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
ok I got 0 zero for this one.
SHORT TO GROUND
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
this was 1.50
SIGNAL FOR AN OPEN
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and the PCM engine connector pin 20, harness side.
this one was. 09
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/a...4&d=1350773182
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,922
Likes: 3,640
Looks like maybe a short to ground in the wiring (as long as 1.5 is in ohms and not 10,000 ohms):
SHORT TO GROUND
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
"this was 1.50"
Key OFF.
Measure the resistance between the FICM connector C pin 10, harness side and ground.
"this was 1.50"