When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Well, it's that time of the year again: coming out of my annual hibernation and getting fired back up about working on the F-1. This year, at absolute minimum, I want to fix up my sloppy steering. Hopefully I'll finally get my axle swap done as well.
I bought a Toyota manual steering box about 1.5 years ago (from a fellow FTE member) and ordered the conversion kit from Mid-Fifty at the same time. Well, the kit just came in over the weekend and I started right in. Removing the old column went pretty smoothly. Then I mounted the new steering box on the Mid-Fifty bracket and went to rough-fit it. I didn't fit - I couldn't get it past the exhaust manifold. So I tried fitting up the box without the bracket... I still couldn't get it in place. The large, square head by the column shaft kept hitting the exhaust manifold.
So, I'm not sure where to go from here. It's possible that I could lift the motor up a bit and sneak the box into place, but I'm guessing it's still going to be a really tight fit (if it fits at all). In looking at pictures, the manual box looks much thicker and beefier than the oft-used power steering versions.
Here's my steering box:
In scouring eBay for other options, I ran across this later ('86 - '95?) Toyota pickup 4wd manual steering box. It has 3 mounting holes instead of 4, and I have no idea about shaft sizes or spline counts, but it physically looks closer to our '48 - '52 steering boxes that have the column shaft under the sector shaft. At first blush, it appears to be a much better fit. Does anyone have experience with this kind of box? Anyone tried one or know the specs on it?
Example of the '48 - '52 stock box (not my photo):
Footnote: I'm running a 255 flathead with a 4sp floor shift. I know a lot of guys have gone to power steering, but I really don't feel like monkeying around with adding PS to my flathead.
And finally... think this pitman arm has seen better days?
I haven't done the swap but, I "THINK" some have had to grind on the box and the manifold because of the tight fit. Wish I could help more. Maybe look at all the swap threads here? Good luck with your project!
Thanks, Scott. I thought about grinding some, and it may come to that. I've tried searching for the Toyota swap threads, but pretty much all of them that I find are for PS boxes and nobody really mentions that being a problem with them. But usually with PS, they've also swapped motors, have fabricated motor mounts, etc. And unfortunately, some of the threads are so old that many of the pictures are gone; such is true with the How To Article.
For all the effort required to install a Toyota box in a Bonus Built truck, I honestly think you'd be way better off installing a remanufactured stock box if you're running manual steering with a stock suspension system and a flathead. The Toyota boxes don't fit the earlier trucks nearly as well as the '53-'56 trucks due to the box design. In addition to the issues you're already encountering, the commonly available brackets don't mount it at the right angle to hit the floor hole in a place where you can re-use the stock column and pedals. It's worthwhile if you want power steering, but there aren't enough benefits to a manual Toyota box over a good stock box to justify the aggravation and expense of cramming it in there. A stock box steers well and drives pretty decent of its in good shape and not worn out.
The other Toyota box you posted a pic of is the later box that they used on their IFS trucks. It would stick quite a bit farther out into the engine bay and worsen your engine interference issues.
Here's a link to the thread I started when I installed my Toyota power box. There's a lot of pictures and detail that explain why the fit is so challenging.
Now with all that being said, it you're converting to hanging pedals and a different steering column, then several obstacles are out of your way. I still have a feeling that it would require a set of headers on the flathead to open up some room around the box to make it fit in there.
BlueOval, I've actually had your thread bookmarked for quite a while and keep coming back to it. Might fine bracketry! I'm not totally against just getting a new/rebuilt OE steering box/column, but unfortunately I've got a bit invested in this Toyota stuff already. If it doesn't work out properly, I'll be going back to OE.
The helpful pictures you've posted in your thread that demonstrate the misalignment are actually what got my mind thinking about the IFS-style Toyota box. My thoughts on it:
Yes, the sector shaft side is longer (I'm estimating perhaps 5 1/2" from frame side to column shaft centerline), but then again, stock is around 4 3/4" and the '79-'84 Toyota box is around 3 7/8" (too short). Six of one, half a dozen of the other (as long as my estimate isn't too far off).
Having the column shaft under the sector shaft is the same arrangement as our Bonus Built trucks. This should actually help with the angles and alignment, right? I feel like the '79-'84 was chosen as the golden standard because it matches the '53+ trucks and we've just tried shoehorning their solution into our trucks.
Since the column shaft is under the sector shaft, that actually gets the bulk of the box out of the engine area and should help with clearance.
Of course the bolt holes are different and I'd have to fiddle with bracketry, too. And all of this is for naught if the shaft sizes aren't the same... and I can't find that info floating around on the web.
I used Reds Headers so I'm not sure how much this helps. I installed the steering box with the manifolds off. I pulled the engine and after rebuild I put it back in and installed the headers last.
That steering box looks a bit large to fit in that area with cast iron manifolds. Jim Davis at Reds Headers sent me an uncoated manifold to test fit first. You might want to go that route or get a different steering box. The right Toyota box with Reds Headers fits nicely.
It is hard to take a picture in that area but here is what I have. Hope this helps.
Yes, that pitman arm ball is shot. Here was mine. Luckily the CPP kit came with a new arm.
Thanks for the info, Pete. That's the PS version which appears to be a bit more compact, but good info and pictures nonetheless. I thought about pulling my manifold off, installing the box, and putting the manifold back on. I tested the manifold bolts last night and thankfully none were locked up. Maybe I just need to drop the stock manifolds and go with headers
How was the alignment on yours? Was it as bad as the trouble BlueOvalRage ran into? Are you using a stock or aftermarket column?
PS - I see you're running an 8.8". I might have to bug ya more when I get to that point. I've got a 8.8" sitting in my garage awaiting it's time.
Thanks for the info, Pete. That's the PS version which appears to be a bit more compact, but good info and pictures nonetheless. I thought about pulling my manifold off, installing the box, and putting the manifold back on. I tested the manifold bolts last night and thankfully none were locked up. Maybe I just need to drop the stock manifolds and go with headers
How was the alignment on yours? Was it as bad as the trouble BlueOvalRage ran into? Are you using a stock or aftermarket column?
PS - I see you're running an 8.8". I might have to bug ya more when I get to that point. I've got a 8.8" sitting in my garage awaiting it's time.
Do you mean the alignment of the box to the column? I had no trouble but then I put in a new floor in the cab so I was able to cut the opening where I wanted it. I am using a Flaming River 30" tilt column with a floorboard collar, a 2" drop (1" would work better) and two U-joints. It was pretty much a straight shot right out to the box. The D shaft between the joints is as short as possible with the joints abutting each other. If you need more details send me a PM and we can talk by phone or email.
BlueOval, I've actually had your thread bookmarked for quite a while and keep coming back to it. Might fine bracketry! I'm not totally against just getting a new/rebuilt OE steering box/column, but unfortunately I've got a bit invested in this Toyota stuff already. If it doesn't work out properly, I'll be going back to OE.
The helpful pictures you've posted in your thread that demonstrate the misalignment are actually what got my mind thinking about the IFS-style Toyota box. My thoughts on it:
Yes, the sector shaft side is longer (I'm estimating perhaps 5 1/2" from frame side to column shaft centerline), but then again, stock is around 4 3/4" and the '79-'84 Toyota box is around 3 7/8" (too short). Six of one, half a dozen of the other (as long as my estimate isn't too far off).
I won't go so far as to say that it WON'T work, but I think that you're going to find that the IFS box is longer through the sector shaft than it looks like it is in pictures. I've got a bad feeling that it will want to occupy the same space as the engine.
Having the column shaft under the sector shaft is the same arrangement as our Bonus Built trucks. This should actually help with the angles and alignment, right? I feel like the '79-'84 was chosen as the golden standard because it matches the '53+ trucks and we've just tried shoehorning their solution into our trucks.
I suspect that you are absolutely right as far as why the earlier Toyota gear gets used so often on the Bonus Built trucks. But keep in mind that most swaps are done to add power steering. Rotating the IFS type Toyota box as you suggest would put the
hydraulic lines out the side and likely into the engine. It may well work in a manual application.
Since the column shaft is under the sector shaft, that actually gets the bulk of the box out of the engine area and should help with clearance.
Of course the bolt holes are different and I'd have to fiddle with bracketry, too. And all of this is for naught if the shaft sizes aren't the same... and I can't find that info floating around on the web.
If you're talking about the splines and thread size for the nut, then I can confirm for you that they are the same. I have personally slid a '79-'84 pitman arm and nut onto an IFS box to check it. Same spline, same thread.
05-08-2018, 10:01 AM
