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1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

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  #16  
Old 05-07-2018, 10:19 AM
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The bolt for the strap around the generator doesn't need to pull up completely, that's not an issue.

I always save the big studs, square washer, and nuts from any manifolds I'm scrapping, so if you can't find a new one let me know. I will say, to get the studs out usually takes a large pipe wrench and a LOT of force, so the remains stuck in the manifold is going to be a problem. With the radiator out you'll have room to get a drill in there, but I doubt an easy-out will do anything but make things worse. Welding some rod to the remains may do the trick, so you have something to grab onto. The heat from welding usually helps too.

Is your intake a Ford aluminum manifold, or aftermarket? Is your generator bracket aluminum? I've never seen one that is, may be a Ford Canada thing, irrelevant to the problem, just curious.

The stud is pretty special, I would hold out for an original or NOS.

There are a fair number of diehard flathead guys in UK over on the Ford Barn, in particular "Mart" who is in Solihull. They will surely have parts and know good machine shops for the work. Might be worth joining over there to meet them.

 
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:07 PM
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Maybe time to consider an electric fan if you want to use an aluminum manifold. That is a lot of weight hanging off a single stud.




I have an Offy AL 4 bbl manifold so along with an electric fan and shroud I used a different bracket that is lighter and attaches with bolts rather than a strap. It still used that single stud but it only supports the 100W alternator with the lighter bracket.




 
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:12 PM
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Hey Suffolk,
Hmmm... The shake down phase can be truly frustrating. My experience with our F1
is it just takes a while to get everything sorted out. On our first good drive all 4 brakes totally locked up
about a half mile from home on a busy multi-lane road..... grr... After a lot of trouble shooting ... our push rod from the pedal was
1/8 of an inch too long & kept pressure on the pedal. My engine ate the first set of engine rods because the builder didn't use case hardened ones...

Hang in there. I know it looks bad but you can get it cleaned up & working again. Hop back up on that horse.....

Ben in Austin
1950 F1 (3511W/AOD)
 
  #19  
Old 05-08-2018, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
The bolt for the strap around the generator doesn't need to pull up completely, that's not an issue.

I always save the big studs, square washer, and nuts from any manifolds I'm scrapping, so if you can't find a new one let me know. I will say, to get the studs out usually takes a large pipe wrench and a LOT of force, so the remains stuck in the manifold is going to be a problem. With the radiator out you'll have room to get a drill in there, but I doubt an easy-out will do anything but make things worse. Welding some rod to the remains may do the trick, so you have something to grab onto. The heat from welding usually helps too.

Is your intake a Ford aluminum manifold, or aftermarket? Is your generator bracket aluminum? I've never seen one that is, may be a Ford Canada thing, irrelevant to the problem, just curious.

The stud is pretty special, I would hold out for an original or NOS.

There are a fair number of diehard flathead guys in UK over on the Ford Barn, in particular "Mart" who is in Solihull. They will surely have parts and know good machine shops for the work. Might be worth joining over there to meet them.

Hi, and thanks for your advice. Yes the generator bracket and inlet manifold are both aluminium. The manifold has a script on it reading "Sharpe" (I think). I will join the Ford Barn forum and see if I can find the guys you mention. It is a shame this has happened so early in my ownership. It is a bit off-putting lest this should happen again. Thank you for the offer of a stud, but I feel I should start afresh with a new component once I can get one made. That insert with the stud dimensions...where is that taken from ?.
 
  #20  
Old 05-08-2018, 09:48 AM
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Some Sharpe manifolds are highly sought after, depending on which one.
The clip is from the Ford Parts CD, https://www.hipoparts.com/1948-56-fo...ts-catalog-cd/. Very useful and for the price a real bargain.
I don't know of anyone making the studs, but I'm sure someone in UK has some spares.
 
  #21  
Old 05-08-2018, 10:43 AM
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Who knows what indignities this bolt suffered in its almost 70 year life at the hands of who knows how many bolt tighteners. Over-tightening, a nick for rust to start, pounded on, loose fit causing metal fatigue, etc.
These bolts do not hold weight, they tighten a bracket to a mount for a friction type fit. Torque is the main over-riding stress on the bolt.
It looks to me like a torque failure (twisting - from over-tightening at some point in its life), although what does it matter now, and I cannot see that much from pic.
Below is a link to eBay (US) for one of these that recently sold for a great price.
There is a current one for sale on eBay (US), priced high (relatively), but is only the "nut" part - not complete. You need nut and stud.
I notice you don't have a lock washer, and neither does mine, I never thought of it, But the ones for sale all have lock washers.
Any advice from you all out there for our UK friend and me and any others of us who are not using lock washers??
Oh, and great job, Suffolk, in finding the part on the road! It sure helps when you have an example of the strange looking part you are trying to find! Can you imagine all of us trying to describe it to you without a picture!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Flathe...p2047675.l2557
 
  #22  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
Some Sharpe manifolds are highly sought after, depending on which one.
The clip is from the Ford Parts CD, https://www.hipoparts.com/1948-56-fo...ts-catalog-cd/. Very useful and for the price a real bargain.
I don't know of anyone making the studs, but I'm sure someone in UK has some spares.
Thanks for your reply. I am going to take the rad to a shop tomorrow to get a price on that....I know that is going to be expensive. Then I am going to get in touch with a couple of traders over here that deal in flatheads and see if I can get this part made somewhere. Also just ordered the CD rom of the complete shop manual.
 
  #23  
Old 05-08-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by electricmaniac View Post
Who knows what indignities this bolt suffered in its almost 70 year life at the hands of who knows how many bolt tighteners. Over-tightening, a nick for rust to start, pounded on, loose fit causing metal fatigue, etc.
These bolts do not hold weight, they tighten a bracket to a mount for a friction type fit. Torque is the main over-riding stress on the bolt.
It looks to me like a torque failure (twisting - from over-tightening at some point in its life), although what does it matter now, and I cannot see that much from pic.
Below is a link to eBay (US) for one of these that recently sold for a great price.
There is a current one for sale on eBay (US), priced high (relatively), but is only the "nut" part - not complete. You need nut and stud.
I notice you don't have a lock washer, and neither does mine, I never thought of it, But the ones for sale all have lock washers.
Any advice from you all out there for our UK friend and me and any others of us who are not using lock washers??
Oh, and great job, Suffolk, in finding the part on the road! It sure helps when you have an example of the strange looking part you are trying to find! Can you imagine all of us trying to describe it to you without a picture!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Flathe...p2047675.l2557
Wow ...for $7 someone got a bargain. Actually I was going to ask on the forum ,,,Once I obtain the new stud should it be Loctited in ?.What torque should the nut be set to on the stud, and yes should it have some kind of lock washer. Of course I still have to get the broken part out of the manifold yet. I will have a go at this soon as I get on top of my other work. Good job I am retired !.
 
  #24  
Old 05-08-2018, 12:10 PM
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Loctite won't hurt at the end of the stud that's in the manifold. The threads are usually very tight to begin with, I can't recall a stud ever backing out.

I've found them with lock washers, and without. With the fine threads and long nut engagement, I don't think the lockwasher is needed. It can make the adjusting of the belt tension an even worse job than it already is. The big nut gets tightened to 55 - 70 ft-lbs.
 
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:13 PM
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Thanks ALBQ about that lock washer. Peace of mind when you mentioned fine threads, and yes adjusting that bracket is a pain in the lower vertebrates.

As for some forensics on Suffolk's stud: I got to thinking they probably pulled that out of a cast iron manifold, using way more torque than the 55-70 lbs recommended, because it was like welded in there after 70 years.. So the stud became over-stressed while torquing it out, resulting in strain (engineering definition) in the top threads near entry to manifold. Then, to add insult to injury, same thing happened perhaps on installation (over torqued again) = more strain in weakened area. So now you have a necked down stud that is brittle due to strain hardening. if Suffolk was able to get that stud fragment out of his manifold in one piece ( which I think is going to be not so easy), I am betting we would see necking (engineering definition again) just a couple of threads before where the threads transition to a shoulder. He might even see it (likely very subtle) on the piece he recovered from the road. It would not take much necking to cause a failure. The failure would be a stress fracture due to brittleness.

Anyway, lesson is that if installing an old stud, check for necking. (OK, I'm ready for the necking jokes now)
 
  #26  
Old 05-10-2018, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by petemcl View Post
Maybe time to consider an electric fan if you want to use an aluminum manifold. That is a lot of weight hanging off a single stud.




I have an Offy AL 4 bbl manifold so along with an electric fan and shroud I used a different bracket that is lighter and attaches with bolts rather than a strap. It still used that single stud but it only supports the 100W alternator with the lighter bracket.




I am interested in going with an electric fan, could you tell me please the diameter of the fan you used please ?. Does it keep the engine cool all the time ?.
 
  #27  
Old 05-10-2018, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Suffolkman View Post
Thanks for your reply. I am going to take the rad to a shop tomorrow to get a price on that....I know that is going to be expensive. Then I am going to get in touch with a couple of traders over here that deal in flatheads and see if I can get this part made somewhere. Also just ordered the CD rom of the complete shop manual.
Just an update for anyone interested. I took the rad to Colchester Radiator Services in Essex. To totally rebuild the rad with a new core, and tidy up some existing repairs, pressure test and paint....A good price, and I liked the company and feel they will do a good job. I am also waiting on a NOS stud from Jim at Royal Kustoms a flathead specialist in Dorset. I am also thinking of going the electric fan route, doing away from the mechanical belt driven standard fan. Thus relieving a lot of weight and stress on the stud. Got to do some homework and find the right sized fan and thermo switch any ideas welcomed ?. Lastly while I am still waiting for my Workshpp CD to arrive, can anybody tell me the correct poundage of pressure cap the radiator should have please ?.
 
  #28  
Old 05-10-2018, 09:15 AM
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Stock radiator caps were 4 psi. Royal Kustoms was one of the UK shops I was trying to remember, having read this article recently: https://www.fuelcurve.com/royal-kustoms/

Is your "generator" actually an alternator? It appears to be different from the generators I'm used to seeing, although export models sometimes used different brands than domestic.
 
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Old 05-10-2018, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1 View Post
Stock radiator caps were 4 psi. Royal Kustoms was one of the UK shops I was trying to remember, having read this article recently: https://www.fuelcurve.com/royal-kustoms/

Is your "generator" actually an alternator? It appears to be different from the generators I'm used to seeing, although export models sometimes used different brands than domestic.
Good point.....I actually have not looked at it closely. It is obviously recently new, I suspect it is a generator but I will check. Another update I have today managed to remove the broken piece of stud still in the manifold. I was not expecting it to be easy, I had envisaged having to remove the manifold from the engine and take it to a shop. But by using a standard No.5 screw extractor it came out pretty easy. See picture below. Now all I have to do is find an electric fan. Then I intend to remove the propeller, the pulley and the ancillary bracket that holds the heavy fan to the generator bracket.
 
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Old 05-10-2018, 10:49 AM
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Good for you! Isn't it nice that sometimes a job is easier than expected and takes less time!
 

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