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My comments of creep-groan were about the noise. Twelve years out it could be the Federal-Mogul hoses are the same between Wagner and Motorcraft. I don’t know if F-M is private labeling hoses for Dorman. Dorman usually tries to get the lowest price they can find, but as the industry is consolidating, anything is possible. You have to look real close at the hose assembly to see if they are the same. There’s nothing too special about how brake hoses are made.
Confirming the steps to replace the flex hose:
- remove fuse for brake lights.turn key so ignition is on. wedge 2x4 between pedal and seat to depress pedal a few inches in order to close the master cylinder -.
Hi Jack! Tomorrow looks to be the big day, so thanks for answering all those questions. So just to confirm -- the key isn't in the ignition? Since I'll be pulling the fuse for the brake lights, I was assuming I was supposed to turn the ignition on or put it in the accessory position. Just showing how little I know -- how does keeping the pedal pushed down help reduce the leaking? I cut a 2x4 to length tonight, so I'll be ready to go in the morning : ) Also, I found several old threads where people cited the torque for the front banjo bolts is 26 lb/ft and 37 lb/ft for the rear. I'm only doing the rear, but I wonder why there's such a difference. I still can't find a torque spec for the other end of the flex hose which connects into the steel line. Not sure how important this particular connection is, so that's why I'm wondering if I should keep digging or if I should just snug it up to 25 or 30 lb/ft and assume that's good. And thanks for confirming no anti-seize on those threads. I'm assuming anti-seize might contaminate the system, and that the brake fluid might keep those threads from rusting up. I'll feel a little less guilty when I can stop following each of your responses with another series of questions. The best I can do now is simply say thanks again!
Most vehicles have the brake light circuit always powered, therefore the fuse pull.
As I mentioned in the earlier post, those were the spec's for the '06 I first put up last night. I've edited the post so it reflects the different values for the '99-04 truck, like yours. Things changed between Akebono and TRW. Added the torque values for line nuts.
I'm not sure why Ford or most likely Akebono the caliper manufacturer set up the front and rear calipers differently. I agree it would have made more sense to have them the same. The important thing at the banjos is to use new copper washers. During the install crush they work harden and are not as soft as they need to be afterwards. Some people then start to over torque the banjos to get them to seal and I have seen where the banjo bolt then started to fracture from one of the thread's root. People in a jam with the copper washers can heat them to red and let air cool, which will anneal them softer then when they were stamped out of sheet.
Yes, anti-seize uses a petroleum base carrier, a disaster for the brake fluid system.
Applying the brake pedal closes off the ports in the master that allow fluid enter the circuits. If they are open the fluid can continually drain out. Masters can have one or two ports per circuit.
[QUOTE=TooManyToys.;18039219]The Wagner hoses should be fine. /QUOTE]
Hi Jack, I'm about ready to install the hoses. But I have a timely question about the slide pins. What is the proper way to insert the slide pins? There are 2 flat sides, and 2 rounded sides. I inserted them the way I thought they should be inserted, and as I torqued them to spec, they turned 1/4 of a turn...so the opposite of how I thought they should work. I'm hoping to make it to Cape May tonight for fireworks, but I'm stuck at the moment. I hope you happen to be online today : ) Thanking you in advance, Tom
One of the flats of the pin fit into the tang of the caliper to prevent rotation of the pin during tightening.
Hi Jack,
Thank you so much for coming to my rescue yet again. Not only are you an encyclopedia of knowledge, but it seems you also have the perfect picture to help illustrate. That is exactly the help I needed, and I was able to get the caliper on with your help. Time wasn't on my side yesterday, so I decided to "call it" around 3pm. I have 3 little ones, and I needed to get the family on the road. So, I switched gears to prepping the trailer and my wife's Suburban, and we were on the road by 6. It was definitely too late to make the fireworks at Cape May, but we made it to the campground in Dennis/Sea Isle City late last night and got settled in. I'm waiting for everyone to wake up now so we can hit our favorite local diner, Dino's -- just a stone's throw from the Garden State, in case you're ever looking for a good meal in this neck of the woods. I wish we were a little closer to your stomping grounds. I was hoping I would have the truck ready by now, so I could thank you in person for all your help. I'm sure I can finish up once we get back, thanks entirely to you. I'm beginning to sound repetitive, but I really don't think I could say "thanks" enough. I hope you had a nice Fourth, and genuinely appreciate all your help. Sincerely, Tom
Glad to help Tom, it's easy for me. Enjoy the Shore!
Yesterday we spent time with our family, close and extended who spend a week at Ocean Grove which is very close to us. So it was our daughters family with grandchildren along with niece's and nephew's families taking in the 4th's parade and later the Asbury Park fireworks from OG Founders Park. Our son and his three had to stay in the Mays Landing / Ocean City area, two of which (almost 3) are lifeguards.
Glad to help Tom, it's easy for me. Enjoy the Shore!
Yesterday we spent time with our family, close and extended who spend a week at Ocean Grove which is very close to us. So it was our daughters family with grandchildren along with niece's and nephew's families taking in the 4th's parade and later the Asbury Park fireworks from OG Founders Park. Our son and his three had to stay in the Mays Landing / Ocean City area, two of which (almost 3) are lifeguards.
Hi Jack,
It sounds like you had a wonderful Fourth with your family! I'm sorry your son had to stay in Mays Landing / OC. I'm sure that's a busy weekend for the lifeguards! OC is my youngest son's favorite beach. I wonder if your grandsons were on duty while we were there! We're back home and I'm trying to wrap up the longest brake job in the history of all brake jobs! I tightened both slide pins to torque spec, and it looks like they each ended up slightly differently.
The bottom pin looks more like the one in your picture. The pin turned as I was tightening it so that the flat spot on the pin was caught on the tang of the caliper. However, if I study the top pin, it looks like the curved portion of the pin lines up with the curved exterior of the caliper and the flat portion of the pin is in the tang. I tightened the top one before posting my last question to you. I noticed that the tang was somewhat curved, so I though the curved portion of the pin was supposed to follow the curve or rounded shape of that part of the caliper and I remember putting a flat head screw driver in there to keep it from rotating as I applied force. Then, when I tightened the lower pin, I repeated this "trick", but the washer rotated a 1/4 turn as I was torquing it down. And since I thought that was incorrect, that's when I posted my 911 question to you before our trip.
Am I getting too hung up on this step? As long as they are torqued, should I move on, or should I redo the top pin so the flat portion of the pin is resting in the tang?
Also, looking ahead, should I remove some of that rust that has formed on the mating surface for the wheels? I'm sure that has built up over the weeks and weeks that my wheels have been removed. Also, should I apply any anti-seize to that mating surface? I know the lug nuts get nothing, but I can't remember about that surface area. I guess I'm looking forward to getting the wheels back on and getting this truck back on the road : ) Our Fourth was cut short a bit since it took us so long to get out of town. So, we promised the kids a long weekend back on the shore in the next 2 or 3 weeks. That should give me a enough time to wrap this up : )
TOP Pin, rounded portion kind of follows rounded portion of the caliper
BOTTOM PIN - kind of hard to see, but it is the opposite of above. The flat portion of the pin is most visible since the curved portion of the pin was caught by the tang.
Yep, getting hung up on the pins. It’s only to prevent the pin from turning when tightening the bolt.
Rust on the flanges should be cleaned with a wire brush, or lightly abrasively cleaned. Initially Ford kept the flanges dry, but around 2007 they started to use a grease on the flange and pilots to prevent rust buildup. Rust on any flanges can lead to higher then spec’d Rotor or wheel runout. The two piece lugs get one drop of motor oil between the nut and captured flange, but the thread torque spec is based on dry threads. Adding oil on those threads can alter the stretch of the bolts by at least 20%, which can initiate stress cracks emanating from the thread roots. It’s one of the reasons why torque control became so discussed (and torque sticks invented) in the 90’s.
I'm happy to report, the brake job is done -- thanks to all of your help along the way. I replaced the flex hose line on both sides as I was replacing the calipers. Everything is back online and torqued to spec and I haven't seen any leaks. I picked up a Motive Power Bleeder so I could easily bleed the lines by myself. I think I read a suggestion to bleed it more than once. Not sure where that came from now, and not sure if it's credible. But since I was running out of time last weekend, I did it again this weekend with a fresh bottle of Ford DOT 3, and sure enough, no bubbles. I also started her up and put it in gear just to test the brake pedal and it it's firm.
So, I'm on the home stretch, and just wanted to confirm something you wrote about earlier. I have a fair amount of rust on the rotor hat (I think that's the right name for it, but the picture will make it clear). I started with a wire brush by hand, but it was slow going. I have a wire wheel for my drill, so I decided to put that to good use. It certainly is much quicker, but I'm wondering if I'm taking the easy way out. I'm taking a brake from the humidity, so I came inside to re-read your last post to me, and I noticed all of your pictures have you doing the work by hand. Should I switch gears and head to the hardware store for some heavy grit sandpaper and scouring pad? I'm trying to be sure I'm only applying light pressure with the drill, and I'm spinning away from the caliper. I can't see the rust particles flying off the rotor hat, but they should be going away from the caliper.
Also, when finished, should I apply a very thin amount of anti-seize or silicone paste to the area I'm currently sanding, or should I just remount the wheels dry?
And final question about wheel assembly. In the second picture, I think I'm pointing to the spot that you said needs a drop of motor oil, but if I misunderstood, could you correct me?
When torquing down the lug nuts, I know to use the star pattern, but do I go to 165lb directly, or would it make sense to get every lug nut to ~90, then ~130, then pull out the torque wrench for a final twist to 165lb.lbs, Sorry for the simple questions, and that's why I need to thank you again for your patience. I definitely respect your knowledge, and and since I'd like to do this job right, I don't mind looking like an idiot as long as I'm taking good care of my truck. Thanks again, Tom
Powered is fine if you want to clean it, but it will rust again. The lug nut oiling location iscorrect, antiseize on the hub pilot, and we did the Superdutys in a stepped torque similar to your values. I had the guys go in a clockwise direction, every third nut. Three trips around the wheel for each torque step.
Jack, don't know if you'll see this or not but I've a question regarding calipers that perhaps you can address. The caliper rebuild kit for my 2009 F250 front brake has rings that measure 0.009" thicker than the ones I took out. I know the old ones might have worn some but that much? That makes 0.018" less ID. The pistons can't be installed by hand and after I used a C-clamp to press it in the piston wouldn't bulge. I couldn't even turn it by hand. That seems too tight but I don't know how tight the piston fit should be in the caliper. Any comments on that?
