I research the junk out of decisions that I make, so I've read A LOT, talked to people, and am currently at one of those places I feel more lost than before because of all the information swirling around my head. Background/current situation: I've got a 2010 Ford Expedition EL 4x4. I had to dump my F150 with the front bench when my wife tricked me into a 5th kid (another story for another time). Its the vehicle I drive and she has a minivan. We had a tent trailer, but "upgraded" (questionable at this point) to a travel trailer. I can't remember exact specs, but dry weight is under 6000 lbs. My expedition has all the changes that make it the "heavy duty" tow package, so should be able to tow about 9k lbs. I live in southern utah and made a 5 hour drive up north to pick up the trailer. There are several significant passes and coming back, it seemed to tow pretty decent. I was flying down the highway because I had to get back for something urgent and was doing 70+ most of the way. Even up the passes the expy easily kept it over 60 mph. I had a heavy duty radiator and transmission cooler to make towing softer and (to me) ever since, it hasn't towed up hills the same. Power is largely lacking. Pedal to the floor and cant get above 50-55 mph. Towed the trailer to California last summer to camp at the beach for a week and it took an extra 3-4 hours. I was white knuckled the whole way because we were getting blown all over. It was a nightmare. I wanted to leave the trailer in California. I started looking at suburban diesel conversions because in my mind an excursion was too old, not made anymore, so would be a problem to repair. Diesel conversion are just too much money, risk that they were done right, etc.

I have a neighbor who loves cars, sells luxury cars, and has a nice jacked up f250. It talking to him he told me he's owned 3 excursions and his family have owned another 2, so he is a fan. Explained to me that they are built on the F250 frame and lots of parts are cross-over until you get behind the second row of seating. I started looking into an excursion. Based on his recommendations and what I had read, I've been looking for a 6.0 that was bulletproofed. What I've found is either too many miles or too much money (either high price and no bulletproofing or even high price with it done). I drive mostly around town and tow a handful of times from spring to fall to camp so I've thought maybe I just suck it up and keep the expedition. Talked to a guy yesterday that suggested I look at a v10. Since then, I've spent a lot of hours reading forums and such online. Most of the "should I get a v10 or 6.0L" threads are years old. I've seen a couple posting that are more recent, but I decided to post this to get a more fresh perspective...something more current than a thread from 2013 or 2010. I recognize I probably don't need a diesel. I've leaned that way for longevity and ease of towing my load (tt under 6k lbs dry, family of 7 and gear). I figured a v10 engine doesn't have a chance to last the life of a well maintained diesel. I see the fuel economy of the v10 and my heart sinks. I don't drive a lot of miles...maybe 9k-10k a year? We try to take trips that don't require towing in our minivan for fuel economy, but I like having a 4x4 to travel up north in the winter when snow may be an issue.

For all of you out there -- because its safe to say you all have more experience with this vehicle than I do...what are your thoughts now that we are in 2018? I was looking at listings and I was surprised that a lot of the v10s are only a few thousand less to the same or more than some of the 6.0L listings I've seen. If I could save $10k, that would probably be an easier decision. With how old these are now and what's out there, based on my mostly around town driving and occasional towing, should I be more open to the v10? should I just keep my expedition and know when I tow its not going to be awesome? Should I keep looking for a 6.0L because the fuel economy and potential longevity is worth the added upfront cost and ownership (maintenance) costs? Diesel fuel here is more than the cheap gas. Its usually the cost of premium or a little over premium fuel here. I guess I'm also curious, I know sitting isn't great for a diesel, but what would it do for the v10? If I found a v10 at a fair price and got it just to mainly tow with and with the savings bought a more fuel efficient vehicle to drive around town, would that be a good idea and just use a v10 as a tow vehicle, or is that bad because I'd end up putting a bunch of money into it for issues that might arise by having it sit?

Are there any other questions or factors I should be thinking about?

Thanks to all ahead of time. As I've been researching, this has been my top pic forum and you all seem like an awesome community to be a part of.

 

Well, I'm currently hunting for an excursion as well. My reasoning from wanting to change from a '03 Ram 3500 Quad Cab, Long Bed with the 5.9 Cummins is the simple fact of planning for kids in the future (Paid off, and more room when the tots come around). The Excursion meets my needs in a few categories and the reasons for a Diesel as well, because I will be pulling a 20ft Enclosed Trailer with everything I own in it.

I move around the country every three years thanks to the Navy, and I don't trust moving companies on touching my belongings. Therefore, having a Diesel is a must. I'm aware the V10 is a very stout engine, and can Tow close to what a 6.0, or 7.3 can do, and V10's are much cheaper to find from private sellers, and dealers.

My Cummins has proved to be very reliable. It towed my goods like a dream from Washington State, to Louisiana, then up to Ohio, 2 weeks after that. My MPG's were hovering around 14mpg-16mpg on the highway. So, knowing going to a 7.3 or 6.0 I could expect around that ballpark with MPG's under tow. I've read that the V10 well do a few MPG's less. Price for Diesel may be a bit more over Gas, but to me, it is worth it. I currently do most my driving around town, fill up for $60.00, and am set for about 3 weeks before I need to fill up again. I've driven from North Canton, OH to Chicago, IL, and ended up being between 1/4 and 1/2 a tank. That alone is pretty kick ****. (28 Gal tank on the Ram)

Another thing to consider is maintenance cost. Diesel Parts and Repairs are generally more expensive than that from a V10. So, if something breaks, would you rather throw a few more bucks on diesel repairs, or go cheaper with a gas motor? (Of course, all depends on what needs to be repaired). Another thing to keep in mind, is that some of these Excursions are averaging around 18 Years Old. Things WILL need to be replaced, just like anything with age. It wears out. So, no matter what, when looking at an Excursion, keep in mind no matter what you do, you will be throwing things at it here and there simply because of age. (Hoses, Gaskets, Clamps, Nuts, Bolts etc.)

If longevity is a concern, you cannot go wrong with really any motor. Regular Maintenance, and Preventative Maintenance will keep these vehicles pushing the 400K Mile mark or more. There is proof. Believe there was a thread a few years ago about a 600K mile Excursion out of the D.C. area if I remember right. So, surely enough, these Old Gals' will go the distance if treated right. (Much like a Spouse....)

Now, Capacity is the selling point for me. These Ex's were the BIGGEST SUV EVER put out on the civilian market. They are on a 3/4 Ton Frame. They dwarf the mighty Suburban in my opinion. The Ex can pull more, and hold more bar none. Seating for 7-9 Persons in the Rig, and have room for luggage to boot in the cargo area, and roof is bar none the best. Seeing as you have a moderately sized family, I believe an Ex would suit your needs in that category.

The toss up between all 4 motors has been asked and thrown a bit on the forums.
-6.0 is a very efficient diesel, if you do some modifications to it. It is more efficient than the 7.3 once the mods are done, and is proven to be a very good work horse.
-7.3 is a dinosaur, but has been proven to be one of the best motors built by international. It is not as fast, and not as powerful as a 6.0 but does get the job done.
-V10, is a gas hog, but from what I've read and heard is just as good as any motor. Very comparable with the modern 6.2 put out by Ford. It can Tow, and it can get ragged on. Very, Very durable motor all in itself, and easily beats the 5.4 (No idea why they put a 5.4 in an Excursion, but whatever)
-5.4, in my opinion is a great motor. I had one in my 2001 Expedition. That motor was perfect for the Expy, and could tow very well, but when in an Excursion is very, very under powered.

So, overall, ask yourself some questions:
-Do you need a Gas, or a Diesel?
-How much are you willing to pay for one?
-How much are you willing to pay for repairs?
-If opted for a 6.0, would you be willing to possibly drop a few thousand to make it one of the best affordable diesels on the road?
-How much do you need to tow?
-How much room do you need for a family?

Also, it never hurts to go bug a salesman at a Dealership, and ask to test drive one. See if you can test drive a V10, a 6.0, or a 7.3, and go from there. Testing the waters is always the best thing to do, and research, which it seems you have done plenty,

Sorry for a long, winded post. Hope it helps. I know other members will point you in the right direction, but all of these inputs again, are all opinionated and from experience.

Welcome to the Forums.

 

If I wanted an Excursion for towing then my first and only engine choice would be the 7.3 Powerstroke.

 

GooseStick has some good advice there. I wouldn't rule out a V10 based on long term reliability. I also wouldn't rule out a 6.0. They both have their ups and downs and things that make them great. The V10 takes about half as much oil as the 6.0, so the expense for an oil change is twice as much. Fuel filters, oil filters, transmission filters are probably more too. So, the 6.0 will be more to maintain.

Bulletproofing. That's a word that's thrown around quite often, as I'm sure you can attest given the research you've done. There are multiple "levels" of this activity, all with different costs and consequences. That's because each level you go up is dependent completely on what the use of the truck is. If you're wanting a daily driver with no real performance modifications, get something to monitor your vitals so you can make sure you see problems before they become problems. If you're going to modify it to gain more HP and torque, then other things need changed (head studs are an example). It's all based on what you need/want the engine to do. I guess the point is, one persons' bulletproof is NOT the same as the next guy.

It sounds like you're fairly close to answering the question of "what do I need?" and "what do I want?". For me, it was more what I wanted, so I took the risk and bought a 6.0. The V10 guys here LOVE them, and for good reason. That motor, with appropriate gears, will pull the crap out of whatever you want to put behind it. Personally, if I were using my X as a tow only vehicle and only running 10,000 miles a year or less, I'd seriously consider a V10.

Aside from the motor choice, the condition of the vehicle and running gear are super important on a vehicle of this age. Springs in the X leave quite a lot to be desired. So, regardless of what you get, if you want a great towing experience, you're gonna want a spring swap. The font end parts are probably worn: hubs, sway bar bushings, adding a sway bar if it needs one, shocks, ball joints, the list goes on. Plan on replacing some or all of those parts if you want a reliable tow pig, especially if you want it to be solid and not having to fight it. Rust can also be an issue depending on where you are (or where the X is from). Lower doors, rocker panels, areas under the cladding of EB/Limited, roof.

Owning an X is a labor of love. They are old and things happen. If you do your own work, then they can be SUPER rewarding and there's nothing quite like driving one around. Good luck, and let us know what you end up with! We'll be sure and help you spend your money on mods!

 

thanks for the response.
-do i need gas or diesel? I dont know. I like the fuel economy of diesel, but not sure the overall cost difference is worth it?
-willing to pay a reasonable amount. Dont want to go a lot over book just because i worry in the next few years someone might come out with a new diesel full size suv since diesel is becoming more popular and then the ex value will drop. Willing to go a little over if its the right one
-hoping i wont have to pay a lot for repairs (fingers crossed)
-hoping to find a 6.0 with the work done, or a good price to offset having to pay for it after getting one
-need to tow a trailer thats under 6,000 dry, so best guess with cargo, trailer, and people...under 7500?
-5 kids, 7 of us plus a dog when she goes with us...so i need all the space i can get

not too many options local. They are older than the years I'd want. Ive been looking on probably over 6 websites a bunch of times a day all over the country. Ebay, autotrader, cars.com, carsforsale.com, cargurus, truecar?, searchallcraigslist, etc.

thanks

 

The 6.0 has to be carefully evaluated by someone who knows them well, and then monitored closely to ensure their continued health. Some repairs on them can get very expensive, but others have been running strong untouched for years, they can be a gamble. They do have more power and torque than a V-10 and they typically will get about 6 to 8 MPGs better unloaded and still do better towing, how much better depends on the load obviously. I like diesels and admire their power and economy potential, especially when properly prepared, modded and tuned. But I chose to go gas for a few reasons. Mainly I was only casually familiar with larger diesels, mostly the Detroits in my Dept's fire apparatus and an older VW that used to drive. I had very limited free time back then and didn't feel that squeezing in a lot of fresh PSD learning was going to be easily accomplished. I was however pretty comfy wrenching on gas motors and had looked closely at the V-10 and saw what seemed to be working best for owners who were using them like I intended to use my future EX. Based on those factors I decided to go gas and have been very happy with my V-10 for the past almost 8 years.
When I first bought the EX I did semi-daily drive it to get familiar with the big wagon with less and regular use over the first two years. Since then it has mainly served as our dedicated tow rig for our old 9,500lb TH and our current 11,300lb TT. As such it does sit for long periods of time between trips, as an example I moved it to make more room for parking at our New Years Eve Party on Dec 30th, ran for about 5 minutes as I shuffled a couple vehicles around, it had not ran at all since our last camping trip in mid-November. It sat unstarted where I had moved it to (with the BatteryTender plugged in) until March 7th. I then checked the oil, it was good, checked my log book for the oil change interval, it wasn't due for another 2K miles and checked and adjusted the tire air pressures then drove it to the gas station for a fill up. When I returned home I hitched it up to the TT and plugged it back in. On the 9th we hopped in and drove it with the 11K TT behind it 800 miles down to Bowling Green KY, it performed flawlessly there and on the return trip. It was a long single day drive each way (13+ hours) so I ran it a little faster than typical at 65/70 MPH as conditions permitted (we did see some snow covered roads in MD/WV) and saw about 7.5 MPG on the tanks over the mountains and a little over 8 MPG on the flatter KY portions, the cold weather held the mileage down a little from what a Summer run would have seen (+.5/1 MPG better). Long periods of sitting then a good long heavy tow is the EX's typical use these past several years and it doesn't seem to mind that combination a bit.
My Ex has a few mods to improve it's towing performance and to make it more "mine". The single biggest improvement was the change to deeper gears, I swapped the factory 3.73 for a set of 4.88s, a big jump but with the 4" lift (Modded X/B codes) and 35.25" tires the effective ratio is reduced to 4.39, pretty close the factory option of 4.30s behind a V-10, a very nice "sweet spot" for these 6.8s that tow. The next most useful mod was the addition of a handheld SCT tuner and a load of custom tunes from 5Star Tuning, I tow using the 89 Octane Performance tune mostly. It provides what feels like a small power boost and it completely changes the trans shift strategy, which makes pulling a heavy trailer much, much better! I also installed a set of Banks long tube headers and Y pipe and an Aeroturbine 3030XL muffler, these helped free up the exhaust breathing a nice amount which improved throttle response and the butt-dyno a little. I also use a high end Hensley Arrow WD hitch between the big (41' hitch to bumper) TT and short-ish wheelbase EX, it really keeps the combo well behaved.
Back when I was still doing daily driving with it and it was still all stock, I typically saw 14-ish MPG with my 50/50 mix of highway/town driving and got a best ever 15.5 MPG tank on a hot day in ME with 6 adults onboard and the same 50/50 mix. Currently it gets about 12.5 MPG with the cruise set at 65 MPH on the Interstate, part of that drop is due to the lift and bigger tires. I offset the big EX's gas hog thirst by daily driving an '01 Suzuki Vitara 4X4 in the Winter that gets 25-ish MPG and a '94 Geo Metro XFi (on my second one now) in the warmer months that gets 55 to 62 MPG depending how hard I try. I keep log books in all my cars and the little cars have paid for themselves in gas savings (based on the 14 MPG average of both the EX and my old Chevy pickup), its a fun combination of rides that meets all of my needs and wants.
EDIT: Over the 8 years we have had the EX it has logged 15K miles pulling the old 9,500lb TH and now has seen 21K miles with the 11K TT in tow, we have traveled all over the Eastern states multiple times. The only breakdown it has experienced was a failed fuel pump that went at 96K miles, other than that it's just been regular maintenance jobs and a few mods.

 

Overall, seems to me that you're weary about dropping some money on possibly bulletproofing a 6.0. It is understandable, they do have a bad reputation but they are very good engines. I'm not sure what they are going for over by you, but up here in Northern Ohio, a low Mileage 6.0 is asking around 20K. To me, that is too much. My comfort zone for an excursion under 200K miles is anywhere from $8K-$17K. This is even taking into consideration of a possible brake job, ($480 for a front and rear kit from Rock Auto), maybe another $600 for Tires, and around $1k for full spring and suspension upgrade. (I also feel that purchasing those parts right off the bat and doing the upgrades is a must, but again: Personal Preference)

Basically, in my opinion, with what you are towing (weight wise), and cargo capacity that you state, a V10 would easily be able to take care of your needs and be easier on the wallet. A Diesel, in my opinion for your needs is a "Want" and that is understandable. Also, everything takes time to find the right Excursion for your needs. I've been on the hunt for a year, and finally found one I like. I'm just hashing out details with the dealer.

Overall; personally, I will go for a 7.3 Powerstroke over a 6.0, because I would rather spend a few grand beefing up the suspension, tires, brakes, sway bars etc. than throwing a few grand on the motor itself right off the bat. That is just me. If there was a V10 Ex around me with under 200K miles, I'd jump on it just the same as a 7.3 Powerstroke. Because in my opinion, they would both meet my needs adequately.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. I figure I'll have to put some money in, but like most, I'd prefer to keep that to a minimum (for routine things)...hoping I can find one that someone else has done that stuff to and I can use my money for the mods/upgrades

 

Thanks for your reply. I had overlooked the 7.3 because I was told the 6.0 has more power. I was also told that if the correct upgrades are done to the 6.0, it would be likely that it will run forever, but the 7.3 runs through transmissions. Someone was telling me of one they had that ate through a transmission every 75k miles. I don't drive that much and it would take a while for me to get there, but based on the information passed on to me, I was thinking I'd rather find a properly bulletproofed 6.0 and be good, or worst case scenario, get the work done up front and then (again, based on what I've been told) not have to worry about issues again as long as I do routine maintenance, where with the 7.3 I'd be having to replace a transmission over and over (If I ever drove that many miles) and it doesn't have the power of the 6.0. Maybe I got bad information? Maybe it was accurate? That is just what I was going off of.

I had been under the impression that the v10 sells for quite a bit less, but in the last two days as I've opened up the v10 as an option in my mind...as I look at prices, they aren't much less and some are the same or more than the 6.0.

On another note...this may be better posed in a different thread, but I'd really like the second row to be the bucket seats. they are hard to find. I read something that the mounting holes for the bucket seats are already in the floor of the excursions with the bench seats. Does anyone know how hard it would be to find two of those bucket seats to do a swap? I am just wondering if I find a good deal on one with a second row bench, if I should move on it and hope to do the swap or if that is a slim to none chance and should just wait it out for bucket? --preference is so kids aren't climbing over seats because they are too impatient to fold one down and so our dog has more space when traveling. Putting her in the back cargo area wouldn't work because we need that space for all our stuff.

Thanks

 

I travel with 5 kids. No dog anymore, but their Babcia sometimes comes with us. I prefer the bench to the captains. Captains are very hard to find.

I have the 7.3L, and mine is heavily modified and meticulously maintained. I make sure I don't break down on the side of the road through my proactive maintenance habits. My 7.3L is making around 390HP/700FT/LB/ torque. Stock, it was nowhere near that, but it cost me way less to get there than bulletproofing a 6.uh-oh. Way less. I have been through one transmission. I was not the original owner, so I don't know how many it has been through before I bought it at 205K miles. With the new updates that have been engineered for the 4R100 in the rebuilds, they are VERY reliable, and not what they were back in the early 2000s. They still only have 4 gears, where the 5R110 has 5, but the overdrive ratio is the same. The 5R110 has an extra LOW gear. You gain nothing on the highway with the 5R110, but you do gain better towing ratios on the low end.

On our long trips, we routinely get around 20MPG highway LOADED WITH KIDS AND BAGS. I drive conservatively, and I am content to take in the view and let everyone else stress in the passing lanes. That means I am at the speed limit almost all the time, or just under it. I like to relax when I drive, but I am not a hyper-miler.

With a 6.uh-oh, you had better be a competent mechanic or willing to learn. The first time it breaks, it will bankrupt you if you are not. I do all my own work on my 7.3L/4R100 combo. If I didn't I would be a very poor man with all the upgrades I have made. With a 6.uh-oh, it is even more true. Very few mechanics know how to work on them or even want to around where I live. The 6.uh-ohs are treated like the plague, and I know a few mechanics that can work on them but won't touch them anymore. Too many incompetent owners that bring them back and blame the mechanic for the failures.

 

I've owned a 7.3 (truck) and currently have a V-10 Excursion. My 7.3 F350 was as reliable as the sun coming up and I never had any issues from the transmission even though I was running a chip. It did have the trademark torque converter shudder but that was really a minor inconvenience. It towed my 11k camper just fine with stock size tires and 3.73 gears. I got around 16 mpg average and about 11 towing the camper. It was running perfectly when I sold it with 330k miles.The ONLY reason I got rid of the truck is that I needed more seats for these dirty little creatures that follow me around and insist on calling me daddy. The diesel requires a little more maintenance and it's more expensive maintenance. The V-10 enjoys parking close to gas pumps. I chose to go with a V-10 Excursion for a several reasons. One, I knew I was going to have to make suspension upgrades to get it ready to tow the camper and the V-10's are fairly cheap here in the north Ga area. Two, I don't tow that much as a percentage of all the driving I do so I don't really need a diesel. If we were doing multiple long trips every year, I could justify a diesel for the increased towing economy. I get about 11 mpg with my V-10 driving around and my last trip to Florida with the camper netted 7.4 mpg but that was with a rear caliper dragging...not sure how much that affected it. I'm running stock size tires and 4.88 gears. The point of this story is that either powertrain is going to tow pretty much anything you hook it to while hauling kids, dogs, and luggage with no problem. Neither one is going to be cheap to drive. Both are fairly simple and easy to work on. Both have their own set of issues that you'll probably have to deal with at some point. You can push a 7.3 to some ridiculous HP levels if you're willing to put the money into it...parts are readily available. The V-10 is pretty much what it is...not a lot of bolt on performance mods that you can just order online but they do come alive past 3000 rpm. It really comes down to which one fits your style the best and which one do you really want. I would say the V-10 will probably suffer through poor maintenance habits better than a diesel. Mine has 260k on it and isn't showing any signs of excessive wear...I have no idea how far it'll go. A 7.3 is a 500k engine all day long if properly maintained.

 

If you do a few basic mods to a 7.3 and add a bigger transmission cooler, they have plenty power and the transmission isn't that bad you just have to keep an eye on transmission temp. Even if you do have to replace the transmission eventualy it is still half the cost of doing all the work to a 6.0 to make it reliable.

 

I imagine there is an overwhelming amount of information out there regarding the 7.3 and the mods people are referring to. What are the "must haves?" What sort of mods would I want to do right away or hope to find in one already done?

I really wish I had easy access to all three engine types so I could drive them and "feel" the difference, but where I live they aren't easy to find. I've seen a few excursion on the road and thought about following the person till they stop somewhere so I could ask questions, but that just seems creepy. You've all given me a lot to think about. Thank you. Keep the input coming. I'd rather have more information to process than make a decision from not enough. You guys have been great so far. I really appreciate it and I hope this thread helps others in the future as well.

 

With a 7.3 you can get a good set of boost, egt, and trans temp gauges, a 4" exhaust, a 6637 air filter, billet compressor wheel, PHP Hydra chip, and a 6.0 transmission cooler and you will be set. You can do all of that for around $1500. First you should make sure everything is maintained and working properly just like with any other vehicle.

 

This guy has some good videos on the 7.3 Excursion.