Need more input on engine choice
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,420
Likes: 16
From: Ouray, CO
The 6L is awesome, but doesn't like short around-town trips - ESPECIALLY in winter.. (true for ANY diesel though)
The V10 is great for it's intended purpose, but not really economical as a daily driver..
I love my Ex - towed an '04 Explorer and it was awesome.. I detected a partially clogged oil cooler when I bought it.
Saved up the cash and bought the BulletProof Condenser mount Oil Cooler (also their EGR cooler as well),
paid a local (Orlando, FL) Ex-Ford diesel mechanic (had his own shop then) to replace it.
nearly 55k miles since - the $3k was worth it. Still has factory Torque-to-yield bolts with 152k miles.
Change the coolant, do the required maintenance, and it "should" last - provided it doesn't already have a problem when you buy it.
An OBDII gauge (scangauge2 or the bluetooth adaptors and APP) are KEY to knowing what you are getting and watching
it once you own it.
IF you don't WANT a new hobby(the 6L WILL be your new hobby):
Why not think about an F250/F350 from 05+ with the 3-valve v10, or the newer models with the 6.2 gas engine?
Put a topper on the bed and it's "almost" an excursion - if you need the covered storage space in back...
Pulled that Explorer from Orlando to SW Colorado:
up Raton Pass, CO
up Monarch Pass, CO
and was absolutely a blast doing it.
The 5R110 transmission makes it twice as good, going DOWN tow/haul mode is incredible as well.
The V10 is great for it's intended purpose, but not really economical as a daily driver..
I love my Ex - towed an '04 Explorer and it was awesome.. I detected a partially clogged oil cooler when I bought it.
Saved up the cash and bought the BulletProof Condenser mount Oil Cooler (also their EGR cooler as well),
paid a local (Orlando, FL) Ex-Ford diesel mechanic (had his own shop then) to replace it.
nearly 55k miles since - the $3k was worth it. Still has factory Torque-to-yield bolts with 152k miles.
Change the coolant, do the required maintenance, and it "should" last - provided it doesn't already have a problem when you buy it.
An OBDII gauge (scangauge2 or the bluetooth adaptors and APP) are KEY to knowing what you are getting and watching
it once you own it.
IF you don't WANT a new hobby(the 6L WILL be your new hobby):
Why not think about an F250/F350 from 05+ with the 3-valve v10, or the newer models with the 6.2 gas engine?
Put a topper on the bed and it's "almost" an excursion - if you need the covered storage space in back...
Pulled that Explorer from Orlando to SW Colorado:
up Raton Pass, CO
up Monarch Pass, CO
and was absolutely a blast doing it.
The 5R110 transmission makes it twice as good, going DOWN tow/haul mode is incredible as well.
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2018
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It looks like a lengthy post I typed out never actually got put up. Bummer. Don't want to type it all out again. If the 6.0 doesn't like around town trips, if not for all the other reasons people mentioned related to potential problems and cost, most of my driving is around town so sounds like i should pass on those. It seems like it takes 15 minutes to get just about anywhere in town no matter what direction you go in...city streets, or up the freeway through town to get to the other side. Not long drives.
The post that didn't make it up was a summary of what I have gathered. Here is the abbreviated version. Let me know if this sounds right:
Due to potential problems and cost, a stock v10 with 4.30 gears would be better than a stock 7.3L for my needs. A modded stock 7.3L can be a beast, but can require substantial funds to get there. Am I on the right track here?
Follow-up question: what if I found a modded 7.3L? The maintenance cost is higher than v10, but they seem to be easier to work on and generally more reliable than a 7.3L. Am I still in the vicinity of being right? So if I were to find a modded 7.3L, what would make it worth buying? what kind of mods would it need to have to make it better than a v10 to the point I could be content without having to put a bunch of money into it? Does that make sense?
Thanks
The post that didn't make it up was a summary of what I have gathered. Here is the abbreviated version. Let me know if this sounds right:
Due to potential problems and cost, a stock v10 with 4.30 gears would be better than a stock 7.3L for my needs. A modded stock 7.3L can be a beast, but can require substantial funds to get there. Am I on the right track here?
Follow-up question: what if I found a modded 7.3L? The maintenance cost is higher than v10, but they seem to be easier to work on and generally more reliable than a 7.3L. Am I still in the vicinity of being right? So if I were to find a modded 7.3L, what would make it worth buying? what kind of mods would it need to have to make it better than a v10 to the point I could be content without having to put a bunch of money into it? Does that make sense?
Thanks
Last edited by bsevans5; Mar 23, 2018 at 06:16 PM. Reason: Grammar check
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,092
Likes: 145
From: San Diego, CA
It looks like a lengthy post I typed out never actually got put up. Bummer. Don't want to type it all out again. If the 6.0 doesn't like around town trips, if not for all the other reasons people mentioned related to potential problems and cost, most of my driving is around town. It seems like it take 15 minutes to get just about anywhere in town no matter what direction you go in...city streets, or up the freeway through town.
The post that didn't make it up was a summary of what I have gathered. Here is the abbreviated version. Let me know if this sounds right:
Due to potential problems and cost, a stock v10 with 4.30 gears would be better than a stock 7.3L for my needs. A modded stock 7.3L can be a beast, but can require substantial funds to get there. Am I on the right track here?
Follow-up question: what if I found a modded 7.3L? The maintenance cost is higher than v10, but they seem to be easier to work on and generally more reliable than a 7.3L. Am I still in the vicinity of being right? So if I were to find a modded 7.3L, what would make it worth buying? what kind of mods would it need to have to make it better than a v10 to the point I could be content without having to put a bunch of money into it? Does that make sense?
Thanks
The post that didn't make it up was a summary of what I have gathered. Here is the abbreviated version. Let me know if this sounds right:
Due to potential problems and cost, a stock v10 with 4.30 gears would be better than a stock 7.3L for my needs. A modded stock 7.3L can be a beast, but can require substantial funds to get there. Am I on the right track here?
Follow-up question: what if I found a modded 7.3L? The maintenance cost is higher than v10, but they seem to be easier to work on and generally more reliable than a 7.3L. Am I still in the vicinity of being right? So if I were to find a modded 7.3L, what would make it worth buying? what kind of mods would it need to have to make it better than a v10 to the point I could be content without having to put a bunch of money into it? Does that make sense?
Thanks
There's a ton of stuff out there for the 7.3L. You can spend a few hundred dollars or easily rack up over $10K pretty quick depending on what you want to do.
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 29,380
Likes: 118
From: Central Coast of CA
Based on current prices: 2.63 for 85 (yep, we have 85 octane in some places here) and 2.93 for diesel I calculated that if I averaged 10 mpg with a v10 and 14 mpg with a diesel the difference between mileage is just under .06 per mile. In 10000 miles, I calculated that the diesel (just driving) would be about $500 cheaper.
This is an opinion based on years of reading on this forum and others, but except for rare circumstances, one cannot compare mileage between gassers and smokers in an effort to justify the higher price and cost of a diesel versus gas. You buy a diesel because you want a diesel, or you buy a gasser because you prefer a gasser. If you can afford the higher price of the diesel and you like it, buy it. If you have to try and justify your purchase by saying you'll save "X,Y,Z" in fuel savings based on better MPG's, you're choosing one over the other for the wrong reason. Sure, it's a factor, but it shouldn't be a main reason, except for rare circumstances, like I qualified earlier.
My vehicles aren't just my daily drivers, they double and triple as my work and racing rigs. I've raced my gassers and my smokers for years. I like performance and speed and the ONLY reason I don't have a V10 powered truck is because of how the power curve comes on when the RPM's build.
Stewart
Last edited by Stewart_H; Mar 23, 2018 at 06:16 PM.
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2018
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Hang on a sec....a lot of us have seen this before.
This is an opinion based on years of reading on this forum and others, but except for rare circumstances, one cannot compare mileage between gassers and smokers in an effort to justify the higher price and cost of a diesel versus gas. You buy a diesel because you want a diesel, or you buy a gasser because you prefer a gasser. If you can afford the higher price of the diesel and you like it, buy it. If you have to try and justify your purchase by saying you'll save "X,Y,Z" in fuel savings based on better MPG's, you're choosing one over the other for the wrong reason. Sure, it's a factor, but it shouldn't be a main reason, except for rare circumstances, like I qualified earlier.
My vehicles aren't just my daily drivers, they double and triple as my work and racing rigs. I've raced my gassers and my smokers for years. I like performance and speed and the ONLY reason I don't have a V10 powered truck is because of how the power curve comes on when the RPM's build.
Stewart
This is an opinion based on years of reading on this forum and others, but except for rare circumstances, one cannot compare mileage between gassers and smokers in an effort to justify the higher price and cost of a diesel versus gas. You buy a diesel because you want a diesel, or you buy a gasser because you prefer a gasser. If you can afford the higher price of the diesel and you like it, buy it. If you have to try and justify your purchase by saying you'll save "X,Y,Z" in fuel savings based on better MPG's, you're choosing one over the other for the wrong reason. Sure, it's a factor, but it shouldn't be a main reason, except for rare circumstances, like I qualified earlier.
My vehicles aren't just my daily drivers, they double and triple as my work and racing rigs. I've raced my gassers and my smokers for years. I like performance and speed and the ONLY reason I don't have a V10 powered truck is because of how the power curve comes on when the RPM's build.
Stewart
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Freshman User
Joined: Jan 2018
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southern utah. St. George, specifically. I'll travel anywhere in the country to buy the right car though. Historically there arent great deals here. Over the years I've gone to New York twice for vehicles and also been out to California.
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I understand that there are certain temps that need to be monitored on diesels. Does ambient temperature make a big deal? It gets hot here in the summer. Up over 100 all summer and often in the teens. We're usually only a few to 10 degrees cooler than las vegas
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 483
From: Southern OH
As long as the cooling system is working properly that shouldn't be an issue with a diesel or gas engine. Diesels actually produce less heat than a gas engine of the same size because they are more efficient at burning fuel.
Veteran/Sheepdog
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,047
Likes: 110
From: Western AR
You don't need to monitor any temps on a 7.3L engine if the cooling system is maintained, as stated above. They just don't overheat unless you drain the coolant out of them. I drove mine 200 miles WITHOUT THE FAN installed on the front of the engine, and it never got over 200 degrees on a summer Texas day.
You DO need to monitor temps on a 6.uh-oh ALL the time. Oil and coolant temps, to be specific.
You DO need to monitor temps on a 6.uh-oh ALL the time. Oil and coolant temps, to be specific.
FTE Chapter Leader
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 30,591
Likes: 1,236
From: N. IL
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
° I've been looking for a 6.0 that was bulletproofed. What I've found is either too many miles or too much money (either high price and no bulletproofing or even high price with it done).
° I recognize I probably don't need a diesel.
° I figured a v10 engine doesn't have a chance to last the life of a well maintained diesel.
° but I like having a 4x4 to travel up north in the winter when snow may be an issue.
° I recognize I probably don't need a diesel.
° I figured a v10 engine doesn't have a chance to last the life of a well maintained diesel.
° but I like having a 4x4 to travel up north in the winter when snow may be an issue.
Welcome bsevans5, after reading your posts on this thread, I’ve come to the conclusion: you’re a complicated guy!
(that smiley means I say this in jest). You make a few contradicting statements that make your decision even more challenging; please allow me to point out a few with the best of intentions.
Originally Posted by GooseStick;
So, overall, ask yourself some questions:
-Do you need a Gas, or a Diesel?
-How much are you willing to pay for one?
-How much are you willing to pay for repairs?
-If opted for a 6.0, would you be willing to possibly drop a few thousand to make it one of the best affordable diesels on the road?
-How much do you need to tow?
-How much room do you need for a family?
Welcome to the Forums.
-Do you need a Gas, or a Diesel?
-How much are you willing to pay for one?
-How much are you willing to pay for repairs?
-If opted for a 6.0, would you be willing to possibly drop a few thousand to make it one of the best affordable diesels on the road?
-How much do you need to tow?
-How much room do you need for a family?
Welcome to the Forums.
° Do you love to wrench on your own vehicles?
° Do you have some space/tools?
° Will you have time to with 5 kids keeping you occupied, or is wrenching a father/son/daughter bonding deal?
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
- I like the fuel economy of diesel, but not sure the overall cost difference is worth it?
- because i worry in the next few years someone might come out with a new diesel full-size suv since diesel is becoming more popular and then the ex value will drop.
- hoping i wont have to pay a lot for repairs (fingers crossed)
- hoping to find a 6.0 with the work done, or a good price to offset having to pay for it after getting one
- need to tow a trailer thats under 6,000 dry, so best guess with cargo, trailer, and people...under 7500?
- not too many options local. They are older than the years I'd want.
thanks
- because i worry in the next few years someone might come out with a new diesel full-size suv since diesel is becoming more popular and then the ex value will drop.
- hoping i wont have to pay a lot for repairs (fingers crossed)
- hoping to find a 6.0 with the work done, or a good price to offset having to pay for it after getting one
- need to tow a trailer thats under 6,000 dry, so best guess with cargo, trailer, and people...under 7500?
- not too many options local. They are older than the years I'd want.
thanks
We’ve concluded (collectively on this forum) no one will come out with a new, full-size, diesel SUV that will be more popular than the Ex (for under $90K). If you’ve got that kind of $ with 5 kids, why bother with this search?
(that means another bit of humor).Fingers crossed? You enjoy doing research before buying, so why cross fingers? On some Excursion purchases though, praying could help.
Anyone who’s modified a 6.0 with quality parts, won’t let it go for a low price.
I wouldn’t shy away from a difference of 5 years if the vehicle is in good shape and well maintained.
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
I figure I'll have to put some money in, but like most, I'd prefer to keep that to a minimum (for routine things)
...hoping I can find one that someone else has done that stuff to and I can use my money for the mods/upgrades
...hoping I can find one that someone else has done that stuff to and I can use my money for the mods/upgrades
Originally Posted by Stewart
I don't want to have this degenerate into another diesel versus gas war thread that gets locked (it's been years since we've had that problem) but I'll say this and let it go.
Stewart
Stewart
They may be rated the same but the V10 doesn't tow nearly as good as a diesel, I used to camp with a guy that had a v10 excursion with 7500-8000 lb travel trailer and it would struggle to maintain 55mph on hills where a 7.3 with a bigger load had no problem maintaining 70.
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
My brain just hurts thinking I am committing myself to 10 mpg on average if I go v10, but I'm trying to look at the bigger picture (overall ownership costs).
I am not sure there is anything that still needs to be mentioned that you haven't already said, but I continue to welcome your knowledge. I enjoy learning and gaining experience…
I am not sure there is anything that still needs to be mentioned that you haven't already said, but I continue to welcome your knowledge. I enjoy learning and gaining experience…
Why is 8-10 mpg towing 13 mpg highway such a hurdle for you? What mpg towing is your break point?
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
I put some gas in it for him to show my thanks for letting me take it out for a drive. Based on current prices: 2.63 for 85 (yep, we have 85 octane in some places here) and 2.93 for diesel I calculated that if I averaged 10 mpg with a v10 and 14 mpg with a diesel the difference between mileage is just under .06 per mile. In 10000 miles, I calculated that the diesel (just driving) would be about $500 cheaper. That would be much different if my estimated fuel economy is off. I get the diesel is more to own--don't know how much more, but I understand that is something to consider. My brain just hurts thinking I am committing myself to 10 mpg on average if I go v10, but I'm trying to look at the bigger picture (overall ownership costs).
).
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
I dont know what i want, so im doing the research to try and figure that out.
You guys have been super helpful so far.
You guys have been super helpful so far.
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
I appreciate the input.
I don't know why...it must be something primitive, but owning a diesel seems like a good thing to do, but all this information is very helpful.
Its hard for me to think that I can save by getting something that only gets 8 mpg towing and 10 mpg on average just driving around.
I don't know why...it must be something primitive, but owning a diesel seems like a good thing to do, but all this information is very helpful.
Its hard for me to think that I can save by getting something that only gets 8 mpg towing and 10 mpg on average just driving around.
There’s that ubiquitus mpg hurdle again…
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
Due to potential problems and cost, a stock v10 with 4.30 gears would be better than a stock 7.3L for my needs. A modded stock 7.3L can be a beast, but can require substantial funds to get there. Am I on the right track here?
Follow-up question: what if I found a modded 7.3L? The maintenance cost is higher than v10, but they seem to be easier to work on and generally more reliable than a 7.3L. Am I still in the vicinity of being right? So if I were to find a modded 7.3L, what would make it worth buying? what kind of mods would it need to have to make it better than a v10 to the point I could be content without having to put a bunch of money into it? Does that make sense?
Thanks
Follow-up question: what if I found a modded 7.3L? The maintenance cost is higher than v10, but they seem to be easier to work on and generally more reliable than a 7.3L. Am I still in the vicinity of being right? So if I were to find a modded 7.3L, what would make it worth buying? what kind of mods would it need to have to make it better than a v10 to the point I could be content without having to put a bunch of money into it? Does that make sense?
Thanks
When I hear those words, I think of APOC. You should probably pm Jon and get his inputs.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ion-issue.html
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
southern utah. St. George, specifically. I'll travel anywhere in the country to buy the right car though.
Over the years I've gone to New York twice for vehicles and also been out to California.
Over the years I've gone to New York twice for vehicles and also been out to California.
FTE has forums for each of these engines, have you had the chance to visit each and learn more?
Originally Posted by bsevans5;
I understand that there are certain temps that need to be monitored on diesels.
Does ambient temperature make a big deal?
It gets hot here in the summer. Up over 100 all summer and often in the teens.
We're usually only a few to 10 degrees cooler than las vegas
Good to consider maintenance costs for various steering components, bearings, shocks, springs, fluids, belt, pumps, etc on a 100K+ mile Ex. regardless of powerplant.
In conclusion, I like your style! Research like crazy, ask every conceivable question, get a feel for needs vs. desires.
Sometimes life is about the journey and pain of learning, not about getting the best bang for the buck.
If you're like me, Mrs has some input into the purchase. What's the boss say?
Anyway, enjoy the rollercoaster ride. Once you decide, plan on the FTE brotherhood helping you every step of the journey.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 3,941
Likes: 240
From: Texas
My 6.0 is like my boat...a hole in the water I throw my money into BUT I love it, love doing my own work on it and that power is pretty nice. Not my daily driver but my little boy loves me to roll his window down and romp on it.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,050
Likes: 1,549
From: Media PA
When discussing the towing performance of the various EX power plants in STOCK form I feel that the V-10 needs two separate entries on the list, I've had the opportunity to tow heavy with 3.73, 4.88 and 4.39 for many miles and there are vast differences with the different gears.
Mr. bsevans5 has a 6k lbs dry TT so let's figure a 7500 GVWR, so <7500 going down the road, that's a manageable weight for even a 5.4 if you are willing to listen to a modular motor sing at high revs (just like Ford designed it to do!). But since he lives in UT he will be pulling through some decent sized mountains and at high elevation, so I would not recommend the 5.4. From my personal EXperience and all that I have absorbed here over the years I would rank the totally stock drivetrains (there are still a few of each out there I'm sure) towing performance for a 7,500 lb TT in this order.
1. 6.0
2. 6.8/4.30
3. 7.3
4. 6.8/3.73
5. 5.4/4.10
6. 5.4/3.73
I think the biggest gap is between 1&2 and the and the closest gap is between 2&3 with gaps between 3&4, 4&5 and 5&6 all being significant steps of about equal levels. Of course once any mod to any one of the motors has been done the ranking may change order or really tighten up a gap. Another curiosity that may not be what one would expect is that the deeper gears on a gas rig will not only increase the towing fuel mileage, but it usually also increased the in town or city mileage as well. The increased ratio making it easier to get the big wagons moving from a stop, but the trade off may be a small reduction on highway mileage.
Mr. bsevans5 has a 6k lbs dry TT so let's figure a 7500 GVWR, so <7500 going down the road, that's a manageable weight for even a 5.4 if you are willing to listen to a modular motor sing at high revs (just like Ford designed it to do!). But since he lives in UT he will be pulling through some decent sized mountains and at high elevation, so I would not recommend the 5.4. From my personal EXperience and all that I have absorbed here over the years I would rank the totally stock drivetrains (there are still a few of each out there I'm sure) towing performance for a 7,500 lb TT in this order.
1. 6.0
2. 6.8/4.30
3. 7.3
4. 6.8/3.73
5. 5.4/4.10
6. 5.4/3.73
I think the biggest gap is between 1&2 and the and the closest gap is between 2&3 with gaps between 3&4, 4&5 and 5&6 all being significant steps of about equal levels. Of course once any mod to any one of the motors has been done the ranking may change order or really tighten up a gap. Another curiosity that may not be what one would expect is that the deeper gears on a gas rig will not only increase the towing fuel mileage, but it usually also increased the in town or city mileage as well. The increased ratio making it easier to get the big wagons moving from a stop, but the trade off may be a small reduction on highway mileage.
Veteran/Sheepdog
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 6,047
Likes: 110
From: Western AR
For the MPG discussion: I just pulled a 6k stock trailer back from the farm 550 miles. Averaged 12.5 MPG while towing it nice and easy. A few years ago, pulled a friends 5.5K TT to the beach and back. 800 miles round trip. Averaged 11 MPG with that big, square block behind me acting like a parachute. Drove way too fast on that trip. Would not do that again at those speeds.