Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,072
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From: San Mateo, CA
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
Reading all the posts on gas mileage and tranny swaps got me thinking....a T-5 would sure be nice, but I hate to butcher my floor and add the floor shifter. Plus, I think shifting my truck on the column is kinda fun! Has anybody ever heard of modding the column shifter to handle a five speed? If that is too ambitious, how about a four speed? 
Lovin' my column shifter,
Lovin' my column shifter,
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 233
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From: Silverthorne Colorado
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
Either a 4-speed or 5-speed would require a 3-rail H-pattern. (Remember you gotta have reverse too)
I have never seen this done in any passenger car or pickup from the factory.
International Harvester did it in a cabover 2-ton truck in the '60s and it was a disaster! I know. I sold them at the time.
Anything is possible with enough time and money, but be prepared to spend a ton of both on this project! Get the 3-rail linkage figured out in the upper part of the column and you'd be pretty much on your way. But it's a huge hurdle.
Good luck, and be safe.
Jim McNaul
BobJonesSpecial
I have never seen this done in any passenger car or pickup from the factory.
International Harvester did it in a cabover 2-ton truck in the '60s and it was a disaster! I know. I sold them at the time.
Anything is possible with enough time and money, but be prepared to spend a ton of both on this project! Get the 3-rail linkage figured out in the upper part of the column and you'd be pretty much on your way. But it's a huge hurdle.
Good luck, and be safe.
Jim McNaul
BobJonesSpecial
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 233
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From: Silverthorne Colorado
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
James3F1s,
You're right. Mercedes did have a 4-on-the-tree. I guess when I'm on an F-100 site my brain is in complete American mode.
Let's see. Mercedes column in an F-100??? Who knows. It might be cool. Once you have the 3-rail shifter figured out, a 5-speed is a real posibillity.
Good luck, and be safe.
BobJonesSpecial
You're right. Mercedes did have a 4-on-the-tree. I guess when I'm on an F-100 site my brain is in complete American mode.
Let's see. Mercedes column in an F-100??? Who knows. It might be cool. Once you have the 3-rail shifter figured out, a 5-speed is a real posibillity.
Good luck, and be safe.
BobJonesSpecial
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 25
From: San Mateo, CA
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
"A ton of time and money"....that's what I was afraid of. I guess I'll have to put on my thinking cap, make some sort of model out of toothpicks and chewing gum, then try and figure it out!!
I'll post anything that resembles a solution; hopefully there are other weirdos out there who like the column shift as much as I do...
I'll post anything that resembles a solution; hopefully there are other weirdos out there who like the column shift as much as I do...
Junior User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 98
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From: Nashville
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
I love the column shift. I don't know what it is. Maybe recollections of both of my grandfathers and my dad driving fords with column shifted 3 speeds. I have many times wondered if it would be possible to do a 4 or 5 speed from the column. If anyone can figure this out I am definitely a player.
Jeff
Jeff
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Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Pensacola Florida
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
As long as we are thinking of re-engineering the columnn how bout this. First through forth on the column and a separate reverse lever. You would have to make a safety lock to prevent accidental engagement but it is doable. A simple spring loaded detent that would unlock when the column shift is in neutral. Theoretically you could mount it anywhere. It could even be disguised as a emergency brake lever.
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Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 25
From: San Mateo, CA
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
That's a great idea....saves original equipment and retains the time-proven engineering of the original three speed pattern. How hard would it be to engage reverse with it's own independent lever?
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 233
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From: Silverthorne Colorado
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
You know, you could probably actuate reverse with an electric actuator. They make them in almost any stroke and they have lots of power. Wire it thru a neutral switch so it would ONLY work in neutral. Also, put in a switch so that it would ONLY work with the clutch pedal fully depressed. Then you could put the switch for the actuator anywhere.
A lot of the street rod suppliers sell these electric actuators for all kinds of applications. They kinda look like a hydraulic ram.
Good luck and be safe
Jim McNaul
BobJonesSpecial
A lot of the street rod suppliers sell these electric actuators for all kinds of applications. They kinda look like a hydraulic ram.
Good luck and be safe
Jim McNaul
BobJonesSpecial
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Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Pensacola Florida
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
Very good. I'll expect the pictures posted tomorrow. LOL Before you do anything it is Extremely important that your factory column remain in neutral when put there or your are asking for disaster. I would prefer a mechanical lock possibly from the actuator. It should be able to shift to reverse and lock the other two rods.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 25
From: San Mateo, CA
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
It will be many months before I do anything. The truck is stored on the West coast right now, with me in Texas where I can't do any damage (yet). I'm just in the initial planning stages.
It's probably a good thing that neither my employer (or my wife for that matter) have any idea how much time I actually spend thinking about how cool my truck is gonna be someday.
Thanks for the safety tips and food for thought,
It's probably a good thing that neither my employer (or my wife for that matter) have any idea how much time I actually spend thinking about how cool my truck is gonna be someday.
Thanks for the safety tips and food for thought,
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Pensacola Florida
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
For every minute of work I do on my truck I probably spend twenty minutes thinking. I am making slow but steady progress. Carpenters have a rule measure twice cut once. For hot rodders it should be:
"Build it in your mind twelve times before starting and be ready to quit and think about it another twelve times" So sayeth the Snail
"Build it in your mind twelve times before starting and be ready to quit and think about it another twelve times" So sayeth the Snail
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,793
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From: San Diego CA
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
I had a 59 Hillman Minx given to me this weekend it had a stock 4 on the column. It has been changed to a floor shift though. Checking with some Hillman experts indicates this to be common because of shifter problems and trannys stuck in two gears at once.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,417
Likes: 3
From: Durham, NC
Is "Four or Five on the tree" possible?
Back in the 60's a lot of foreign cars had 4 on the column. My dad
had a 1961 Citroen that had an interesting shifter, it was located
above the steering column. It was a manual shift, with an automatic clutch. All it had was an accelerator, and brake on the
floor, and the brake was a round disc looking thing, almost like
an over grown light dimmer switch!!!!
had a 1961 Citroen that had an interesting shifter, it was located
above the steering column. It was a manual shift, with an automatic clutch. All it had was an accelerator, and brake on the
floor, and the brake was a round disc looking thing, almost like
an over grown light dimmer switch!!!!