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I’m telling you guys, if one auto manufacturer took what was best from each existing manufacturer, engineered that into one vehicle.... I think that’d be a big seller.
in reference to distributors, mopar vs Ford, firing orders etc.... all those things that when I work on a Ford I think, now why can’t mopar do this or, why can’t ford do like dodge does on their 318’s.....
Of course that might spark a philosophical debate on “what really is easier for everyone to work on”? I suppose for me it boils down to what I’m used to as I am, like most men, a creature of habit. 18 years in the military has only solidified that. Keep that in mind, gents, in the future as my opinions may be skewed because “ that’s the way “it” should be!” Lol
Ya easiest to work on is a good debate.
With out high jacking the thread or getting to far off topic.
I have always found the older Fords quite easy to work with out too many "WTF's why did they do this".
The newer ones though OMFG they are terrible. The Old MN12 and the DEW98"s platforms had to be the worst.. Nothing was easy to do on the MN12's In the SC Thunderbird it was 6 hour job by the book just to R&R the spark plugs on the 3.8L V6
I wish Ford would look towards Mercedes in this aspect. In my experience Mercedes are far and away the easiest of the modern vehicles to work on/service. It takes some changing on how you think about and approach repairs as the German engineers did it in a completely different manner compared to the domestics... Mercedes tends bury stuff under a bunch other stuff, and at first glance you think oh jeeze this is gonna be an absolutely miserable cluster of a job. Where as with Ford you can get at stuff with out having to pull too much other stuff off. But Mercedes keeps their fasteners easy to access and in the open so you rarely need more than a wrench or ratchet,socket and at most an extension to remove stuff and then it just drops off and can be lifted out, in literally no time at all you are at what you need to get off with no scraped or busted knuckles.. Where with most domestics fasteners are buried all over the place and can just be horrific to get at then many times you have to play tetris to get the actual part out of the vehicle.
Even having to pull half dozen things off then pulling off the item you need to replace in the Mercedes more often than not is faster than trying to get hidden fasteners then having to play tetris to remove it around other things. Plus no scraped knuckles.
Ease of servicing and repair seems to be something that gets over looked during engineering and design with most of the domestics and many of the imports, they are getting better but still have a long way to go.
This is the single most glaring thing I have noticed working on my Mercedes's, is they spent a lot of time and thought making them as easy to service and repair as was practically possible they even went as far as having extra catches on the hood hinges that you can release and allow you open the open the hood to a near vertical service position that locks it in place so it wont close or move, this literally takes about 2 seconds to do. Even an engine removal out the top does not necessarily require removal of the hood.
This is in part I imagine some of price premium on a Mercedes also. But I love being able to flip the hood vertical when changing oil and what not as the engine bay is wide open and allows it be to be well lit with out a trouble light.
See below pics. Of regular position and the locked in place service position of the hood on my Old E320.
I really wish Ford would look at how Mercedes and to a lesser degree BMW accommodated vehicle repair and servicing and adopt a similar philosophy, as in the long run it will save them untold millions in warranty repair costs and reduce the over cost of ownership for the owner once the warranty expires. This would be a huge selling point to the average joe or business that does basic or even more advanced servicing on the vehicle.
Haha. well im not a huge Delorean fan ( first thing I thought of) but I’d love the corrosion resistant properties!
Yup gotta give Ford Kudos for the Aluminum bodied F-series I think it is paying off, for every New GM or Doge truck you see here you see ten plus Fords.
Ya easiest to work on is a good debate.
With out high jacking the thread or getting to far off topic.
I have always found the older Fords quite easy to work with out too many "WTF's why did they do this".
The newer ones though OMFG they are terrible. The Old MN12 and the DEW98"s platforms had to be the worst.. Nothing was easy to do on the MN12's In the SC Thunderbird it was 6 hour job by the book just to R&R the spark plugs on the 3.8L V6
I wish Ford would look towards Mercedes in this aspect. In my experience Mercedes are far and away the easiest of the modern vehicles to work on/service. It takes some changing on how you think about and approach repairs as the German engineers did it in a completely different manner compared to the domestics... Mercedes tends bury stuff under a bunch other stuff, and at first glance you think oh jeeze this is gonna be an absolutely miserable cluster of a job. Where as with Ford you can get at stuff with out having to pull too much other stuff off. But Mercedes keeps their fasteners easy to access and in the open so you rarely need more than a wrench or ratchet,socket and at most an extension to remove stuff and then it just drops off and can be lifted out, in literally no time at all you are at what you need to get off with no scraped or busted knuckles.. Where with most domestics fasteners are buried all over the place and can just be horrific to get at then many times you have to play tetris to get the actual part out of the vehicle.
Even having to pull half dozen things off then pulling off the item you need to replace in the Mercedes more often than not is faster than trying to get hidden fasteners then having to play tetris to remove it around other things. Plus no scraped knuckles.
Ease of servicing and repair seems to be something that gets over looked during engineering and design with most of the domestics and many of the imports, they are getting better but still have a long way to go.
This is the single most glaring thing I have noticed working on my Mercedes's, is they spent a lot of time and thought making them as easy to service and repair as was practically possible they even went as far as having extra catches on the hood hinges that you can release and allow you open the open the hood to a near vertical service position that locks it in place so it wont close or move, this literally takes about 2 seconds to do. Even an engine removal out the top does not necessarily require removal of the hood.
This is in part I imagine some of price premium on a Mercedes also. But I love being able to flip the hood vertical when changing oil and what not as the engine bay is wide open and allows it be to be well lit with out a trouble light.
See below pics. Of regular position and the locked in place service position of the hood on my Old E320.
I really wish Ford would look at how Mercedes and to a lesser degree BMW accommodated vehicle repair and servicing and adopt a similar philosophy, as in the long run it will save them untold millions in warranty repair costs and reduce the over cost of ownership for the owner once the warranty expires. This would be a huge selling point to the average joe or business that does basic or even more advanced servicing on the vehicle.
Any way sorry for the thread high jack.
Regular Position
Locked in place Service Position.
That is really the key point for all of us that work on our own vehicles, you’re right.
As an example, in another lifetime I was an auto mechanic....this was in the mid nineties. I HATED to see a Cadillac come in our shop with the Northstar V-8 . Talk about lack of access to simple things such as spark plugs.... but, if I saw a vehicle like a 1971 VW microbes pull in, I’d think to myself “ok, this is easy money. Just like you said, German engineering made everything on these stupid O-4 aircooled engines easy to do. Even the electricals were easy and THAT is saying something. Some might argue it’s because they always broke down and, ok, yeah they had a reputation but; point is don’t create a situation to where the consumers of your products need to be an engineer to troubleshoot and R&R parts. Don’t make it so if you have “hands this big” you can’t get to the starter motor or some module on the block.
you hit the nail on the head: buyers would much prefer a manufacturer that creates a vehicle they can do at least the basics on..... they’d be more apt to keep buying said manufacturers vehicles if they knew, hey, I can change the battery without having to remove the floor in the trunk...
either way, I’ll also agree that older Fords are easy, I’d argue that every domestic vehicle pre heavy EPA regs are extremely simple to troubleshoot, diagnose and do the work on.
I blame government!!!! 😆
I will agree with matthewq4b on working on the German stuff. I have never worked on any German autos, but it was pure pleasure to work on German made woodworking equipment at a cabinet making factory. All the electrical was well marked and documented, everything that had critical alignment was pinned with tapered pins.
you talking about reluctor spring? I’d thought about that too. When I build a mopar small block, that’s something that I do. Only I don’t advance the timing any, I let the weaker reluctor do that for me.
Well, there's different ways of accomplishing that depending on the distributor type, I'm getting ahead of my skis there.
Basically though the OEM usually has a lousy timing curve and it should be adjusted. It's more complicated than just twisting the distributor, however. That's why it's called a "curve" as you already know.
I will agree with matthewq4b on working on the German stuff. I have never worked on any German autos, but it was pure pleasure to work on German made woodworking equipment at a cabinet making factory.
I used to work in a factory that made dressers, and it was full of German equipment. They do make good stuff, I'll give them that. I've also been driving/wrenching on Volkswagen diesels for many years, and while they're not at the level of the BMW's or Mercedes, they are certainly fine to work on. I do curse the Germans every now and then for some of the engineering things they've done, but I get over it...lol. As they say with German engineering: "The Germans do things because they can, not because they should".
I used to work in a factory that made dressers, and it was full of German equipment. They do make good stuff, I'll give them that. I've also been driving/wrenching on Volkswagen diesels for many years, and while they're not at the level of the BMW's or Mercedes, they are certainly fine to work on. I do curse the Germans every now and then for some of the engineering things they've done, but I get over it...lol. As they say with German engineering: "The Germans do things because they can, not because they should".
VW AG is a bit of different animal, VW seems to do stuff in a more North American manner compared to Mercedes and BMW .
I wont get in to deep about it but I have to sat the worst vehicle I have owned was a VW . The Diesel engine in it was amazing the rest of the car...... not so much, it was full of fundamental design and engineering flaws.
VW AG is a bit of different animal, VW seems to do stuff in a more North American manner compared to Mercedes and BMW .
I wont get in to deep about it but I have to sat the worst vehicle I have owned was a VW . The Diesel engine in it was amazing the rest of the car...... not so much, it was full of fundamental design and engineering flaws.
The diesel engine is the only reason I have owned them. I would never have bothered otherwise. I do 60k per year, so the MPG is important. Without the diesel engine, they're just another econobox car.
Back on the topic of distributors, my Crame Cams adj vac/advance kit arrived today, so I'll be re-curving my distributor tonight. I'm mildly curious to see if the reman unit I bought is curved exactly the same as the one I removed from my truck.
The diesel engine is the only reason I have owned them. I would never have bothered otherwise. I do 60k per year, so the MPG is important. Without the diesel engine, they're just another econobox car.
Back on the topic of distributors, my Crame Cams adj vac/advance kit arrived today, so I'll be re-curving my distributor tonight. I'm mildly curious to see if the reman unit I bought is curved exactly the same as the one I removed from my truck.
Yup same here the Diesel was the only reason. The E320 pictured above is a Diesel.
To bad there is no way spool up the distributors and compare the two. And now shops with distributor curving machines and the knowledge to use them are basically nonexistent. Bet you could count all the ones in Canada on one hand.
To bad there is no way spool it up the distributors and compare the two. And now shops with distributor curving machines and the knowledge to use them are basically nonexistent. Bet you could count all the ones in Canada on one hand.
Yes sir, agreed. For me, it would almost certainly mean sending my distributor a 1000 miles to the west.
Since I'm having my engine dyno'd, I will have the benefit of actually testing and checking the ignition curve and amount of advance. Using the two yellow springs in the Crane kit is supposed to give full advance by 2600 RPM. I'm sure there is some +/- there, but we will see. I was more curious to see what is inside the reman distributor I bought. I talked to Autoline, and they told me that all of the DSII distributors they do will be the same, regardless of the application. I'm just curious if it will have 13L/18L slots like my original.
Of course I can't spin it up, but I'll see what the springs feel like by hand, and how they compare to my originals.
Hopefully we can determine on the dyno where the optimal total advance is, and then I can adjust the slots later if necessary to get the initial timing where it needs to be.
Yes sir, agreed. For me, it would almost certainly mean sending my distributor a 1000 miles to the west.
Since I'm having my engine dyno'd, I will have the benefit of actually testing and checking the ignition curve and amount of advance. Using the two yellow springs in the Crane kit is supposed to give full advance by 2600 RPM. I'm sure there is some +/- there, but we will see. I was more curious to see what is inside the reman distributor I bought. I talked to Autoline, and they told me that all of the DSII distributors they do will be the same, regardless of the application. I'm just curious if it will have 13L/18L slots like my original.
Of course I can't spin it up, but I'll see what the springs feel like by hand, and how they compare to my originals.
Hopefully we can determine on the dyno where the optimal total advance is, and then I can adjust the slots later if necessary to get the initial timing where it needs to be.
Ya that is the big thing finding the optimal total advance. Once you have that you can work backwards from there. Ya I will be interesting to see what reluctor is in it. a 14L or 15L would be nice.
You can certainly spin a distributor up and check the curve with a light. Done all the time. Distributor machines are nice but this will do the job too.
Flourescent timing tape from Summit or Jegs on the damper has numbers reading out to 50° BTDC, easy to read and work well.
You can certainly spin a distributor up and check the curve with a light. Done all the time. Distributor machines are nice but this will do the job too.
Flourescent timing tape from Summit or Jegs on the damper has numbers reading out to 50° BTDC, easy to read and work well.
Well, that timing tape is a neat idea, I didn't know there was such a thing. I specifically went and bought a silver Sharpie pen to mark 0 degrees on mine so I could see it.
I also sand blasted and painted my timing pointer gloss black...not sure if that was a good idea or bad yet...lol. No idea what color it was off the assembly line. All I know is that it was rust colored when I got it.
You can certainly spin a distributor up and check the curve with a light. Done all the time. Distributor machines are nice but this will do the job too.
Flourescent timing tape from Summit or Jegs on the damper has numbers reading out to 50° BTDC, easy to read and work well.
Yup absolutely.
But pretty hard to do when the engine is in pieces getting ready to go to the machine shop. lol
Hence the distributor machine comment.
Well, that timing tape is a neat idea, I didn't know there was such a thing. I specifically went and bought a silver Sharpie pen to mark 0 degrees on mine so I could see it.
I also sand blasted and painted my timing pointer gloss black...not sure if that was a good idea or bad yet...lol. No idea what color it was off the assembly line. All I know is that it was rust colored when I got it.
With the timing tape you need to make sure you match the diameter of the balancer with the tape. It comes in different diameter applications. It is one of those check list things once the engine is 50% done at the machine shop.
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