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Just finished rebuilding the top end of an 85 F150 with a 351 Windsor. Block look beautiful inside cleaned up the top and did a valve job replaced all the gaskets because I had a blown head gasket I replaced water pump distributor basically everything to get the truck running. Before I did this I burnt through about 15 Duralast Gold starters due to heat soak. Soon as the engine starter look hot starter would fail. Bought a powermaster high torque mini starter it starts at beautifully even after the rebuild we had to crank it and it didn't hesitate at all. However if I turn it off after running it for a while and turn it back on it either spins or grinds. I have a break bar with a socket that will turn the engine over. And if I turn it just a smidge and start it starter hooks up and works perfectly even after driving for awhile so the soak issue isnt failing the starter
but it's like the starter doesn't connect unless I let it sit for a while don't know what's going on. I even changed the flywheel in the old one didn't look that bad
I burnt through about 15 Duralast Gold starters due to heat soak.
Um, didn't you start to get suspicious after the first few? Twelve is my personal limit...
Are you positive that starter heat soak is the root cause? When an engine is warm, the piston rings seal better and so compression increases. This causes an increased load on the starter. If the starter system (not just the starter) is marginal, this normal extra resistance can be enough to cause problems when the engine is warm, but all is good when cold. Ignition timing can be a factor, too.
A long-winded troubleshooting guide here, scroll to the end of the first post for the simple checks:
However if I turn it off after running it for a while and turn it back on it either spins or grinds. I have a break bar with a socket that will turn the engine over. And if I turn it just a smidge and start it starter hooks up and works perfectly
I wonder if this is a common problem with the high torque starters. They have a different engagement mechanism than the stock style. Maybe the starter's teeth don't self-align with the ring gear as easily, who knows. See this post (from a VERY long thread) for a similar recurring issue with another high torque starter:
My roommate was the previous owner and is the one that changed out so many starters. Truck wasn't running so iv been rebuilding it. They were Duralast Gold Starters with a lifetime warranty. I just bought the Powermaster starter because reviews said it fixed heat soak issues. starter works great on first crank every now and then it will spin or grind but the problem is way worse after driving it around for 10 min or more. If it does grind or spin if I turn the engine by hand just a little it hooks up and starts unless it's hot then it will try to start then just spin. Not sure what todo
the problem is way worse after driving it around for 10 min or more. If it does grind or spin if I turn the engine by hand just a little it hooks up and starts unless it's hot then it will try to start then just spin. Not sure what todo
What happens if you attempt a restart after a few minutes of sitting with the engine at normal operating temperature? For example, if knocking over a liquor store and you run back out to your truck. A few minutes after shutdown is when underhood temperatures are their warmest, so that will aggravate any marginal condition.
What if the reliability of this type of starter is dependent on how strongly the gear drive is kicked out to engage with the ring gear? If the gear drive is only moved half-heartedly, perhaps positive engagement is hit or miss. Maybe it needs a swift, solid motion to engage or it's going to grind. I don't really know, just thinking out loud. Anybody else have any thoughts on this?
What happens if you attempt a restart after a few minutes of sitting with the engine at normal operating temperature? For example, if knocking over a liquor store and you run back out to your truck. A few minutes after shutdown is when underhood temperatures are their warmest, so that will aggravate any marginal condition.
Yeah, I leave mine running. Fumble with your keys once and it's over.
If I just start it and let it run for example when I was checking the timing after putting the top end back together. Sometimes it will start up fine sometimes I'll get an immediate grind or you can just hear the gear spin if I turn the engine over by hand it starts right back up. The only time it won't start up is if it's been running for a while 10 minutes or more then it's impossible to get the starter to not grind or not spin freely. I know the new starter pulls a lot of current from the battery so I need a better battery for that one. Going to put the Duralast Gold starter back on since it has a lifetime warranty till I can figure out what's going on. New starter work better I don't want to burn it out. It's almost like maybe ring gear is staying engaged and causing the starter to heat up I don't know. I also replaced the flywheel and the old one didn't look that bad. Only thing I haven't changed is the main wire going to the starter probably going to change that out tomorrow just to see if that does anything and try a Napa selenoid instead of Duralast from Auto Zone any help on this would be much appreciated I've tried everything I can think of
If I just start it and let it run for example when I was checking the timing after putting the top end back together. Sometimes it will start up fine sometimes I'll get an immediate grind or you can just hear the gear spin if I turn the engine over by hand it starts right back up. The only time it won't start up is if it's been running for a while 10 minutes or more then it's impossible to get the starter to not grind or not spin freely unless i let it sit for 3 hours or so then it will start with no problems at all. I know the new starter pulls a lot of current from the battery so I need a better battery for that one. Going to put the Duralast Gold starter back on since it has a lifetime warranty till I can figure out what's going on. New starter works better I don't want to burn it out. It's almost like maybe ring gear is staying engaged and causing the starter to heat up I don't know and my starter knowledge is limited. I also replaced the flywheel and the old one didn't look that bad. Only thing I haven't changed is the main wire going to the starter probably going to change that out tomorrow just to see if that does anything and try a Napa selenoid instead of Duralast from Auto Zone any help on this would be much appreciated I've tried everything I can think of. I took a year of Automotive class in high school my roommate had his 85 F150 love the body style but it wasn't running for almost a year wanted a project truck and he wanted my car. Had a blown head gasket so Irebuilt the top end and replaced distributor, water pump, 3 freeze plugs, heater core all the coolant hoses, new spark plugs, new spark plug wires, new carburetor, new ignition control module. I didnt realize it needed thos much but it Runing and sounds 10x better and getting way better gas millage but this starter thing has me stumped. Don't mind spending money to get it rebuilt right and I have been do as much research as I can on here and on you tube before I post. put some before and after pics for the rebuild
On the original Ford solenoid, you are not running two large wires as original correct? You have one large wire going to the battery and then to one side of the Ford solenoid, and then on the same side of the solenoid you are running another large wire to the new starter correct?
You are only supposed to have a 12 gauge wire on the other side of the solenoid running to the starter to trigger it to start.
On the original Ford solenoid, you are not running two large wires as original correct? You have one large wire going to the battery and then to one side of the Ford solenoid, and then on the same side of the solenoid you are running another large wire to the new starter correct?
You are only supposed to have a 12 gauge wire on the other side of the solenoid running to the starter to trigger it to start.
so I have 1 cable on the battery side and one large cable on the other side running to the new starter. and the instructions said to just use a 12g bridge wire from the starter power to the trigger
I am surprised the instructions say use that jumper. That is considered poor practice with most starters, and the geared PM starter I was looking at before said do not use a jumper. The main problem when using the jumper, the starter will scrape after the engine starts. When you let off the key, the starter spinning acts like a generator and keeps the solenoid on the starter activated a little bit too long and makes it drag in the flywheel.
It probably will not help your problem, but if you wanted to experiment, you could take the jumper out and run a short piece of wire up to the solenoid, and then just touch the wire after you get the engine hot and see if it still fails.
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