Real-Deal Max Payload???
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 324
Likes: 8
From: Austin, TX
I haven't seen anyone point out that the yellow sticker payload is based on the DERATED payload assigned by the manufacturer. GVWR is a paper number used for tax/registration/licensing and has little relationship to what the truck can actually safely haul.
My '17 F350 CCSB 6.7L SRW pulls a fifth wheel with a 3150# pin weight and is nearly 1000# under the RAWR but I'm only about 300# under the yellow sticker payload.
They don't make it easy to figure out what you can pull/haul.
My '17 F350 CCSB 6.7L SRW pulls a fifth wheel with a 3150# pin weight and is nearly 1000# under the RAWR but I'm only about 300# under the yellow sticker payload.
They don't make it easy to figure out what you can pull/haul.
I’m impressed you made it under that yellow sticker with people, hitch, and 3150# pin. That 3150# and a standard hitch would max me out. I wouldn’t have anything left for the family.
FTE Community Team
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,341
Likes: 1,056
From: Florida
I tow a 13,999 gross lb 5th wheel with my 2107 Lariat Value pkg, 6.7L CCSB and exactly 3500 lb payload.
I just make it under payload. I would not want to tow anything heavier.
2800 lb pin weight
37 LB Andersen 5th wheel hitch
400 lbs of people in the cabin
150 lbs of dog and stuff in the cabin
I just make it under payload. I would not want to tow anything heavier.
2800 lb pin weight
37 LB Andersen 5th wheel hitch
400 lbs of people in the cabin
150 lbs of dog and stuff in the cabin
Cargo Master
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,400
Likes: 15
This was coming home from camping without the 200# of firewood in the bed and nearly empty tanks. (My F450 weighs 900# more than a F350 SRW long bed.)
Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 105
From: Casper, Wyoming
4226 lbs payload on my F350 but it is also a 6.2 and the XLT package. Just by having the diesel you are giving up 800 lbs in payload versus the gas engine. That is the catch 22 with diesel versus gas and payload. You can get more payload with the 6.2 but your tow ratings are not as high.
I haul a truck camper so payload for me was my number one priority when I bought my truck.
I haul a truck camper so payload for me was my number one priority when I bought my truck.
Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Likes: 1
For example, a F350 with a GVWR of 12,001# pulling a 14,000# fifth wheel would require a Class A exempt license in Texas. If commercial, it would require a CDL. With a 11,400# or 10,000# GVWR (same truck) it only requires a Class C license.
A more realistic payload - for non-commercial purposes - can be calculated from the axle ratings which are based on the actual capacities of the suspension, axle and tires.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 324
Likes: 8
From: Austin, TX
Don't be to impressed - that yellow sticker number is based on GVWR and that's a number that Ford pulls out of thin air. You can get the same truck with either a 10,000 or 11,400 GVWR - exactly the same truck, but one has a gross weight RATING 1,400 higher than the other. GVWR is simply for the purpose of taxes, registration or licensing, just depending on where you live. It has little to do with real world payload.
For example, a F350 with a GVWR of 12,001# pulling a 14,000# fifth wheel would require a Class A exempt license in Texas. If commercial, it would require a CDL. With a 11,400# or 10,000# GVWR (same truck) it only requires a Class C license.
A more realistic payload - for non-commercial purposes - can be calculated from the axle ratings which are based on the actual capacities of the suspension, axle and tires.
For example, a F350 with a GVWR of 12,001# pulling a 14,000# fifth wheel would require a Class A exempt license in Texas. If commercial, it would require a CDL. With a 11,400# or 10,000# GVWR (same truck) it only requires a Class C license.
A more realistic payload - for non-commercial purposes - can be calculated from the axle ratings which are based on the actual capacities of the suspension, axle and tires.
I've probably temporarily forgotten something obvious. If the safe GVW limits are represented by the sum of the gross axle ratings, what competitive advantage does Ford enjoy by limiting the F-350 SRW GVWR to 11500#? If the axle ratings are the whole story, Ford could have a default GVWR of 13230#. Ford could then simply continue to derate it on paper for folks who want it for registration purposes. It would seem like a max GVWR of 13230# would be advantageous for them (certainly in TX is isn't a problem for registration), so why would they choose to arbitrarily assign an upper limit of 11500#? I think there must be a bit more to the story.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 271
Likes: 3
I understand your arguments and agree that the 9900#, 10000#, and 11400# are all available for registration purposes.
I've probably temporarily forgotten something obvious. If the safe GVW limits are represented by the sum of the gross axle ratings, what competitive advantage does Ford enjoy by limiting the F-350 SRW GVWR to 11500#? If the axle ratings are the whole story, Ford could have a default GVWR of 13230#. Ford could then simply continue to derate it on paper for folks who want it for registration purposes. It would seem like a max GVWR of 13230# would be advantageous for them (certainly in TX is isn't a problem for registration), so why would they choose to arbitrarily assign an upper limit of 11500#? I think there must be a bit more to the story.
I've probably temporarily forgotten something obvious. If the safe GVW limits are represented by the sum of the gross axle ratings, what competitive advantage does Ford enjoy by limiting the F-350 SRW GVWR to 11500#? If the axle ratings are the whole story, Ford could have a default GVWR of 13230#. Ford could then simply continue to derate it on paper for folks who want it for registration purposes. It would seem like a max GVWR of 13230# would be advantageous for them (certainly in TX is isn't a problem for registration), so why would they choose to arbitrarily assign an upper limit of 11500#? I think there must be a bit more to the story.
Most people would never do the load balancing necessary to get both axles at max capacity. In many cases it would not even be possible. Ford would be getting sued left and right by people who couldn’t load to gvw without overloading the axle. Ford also wouldn’t sell as many drw.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 37,383
Likes: 1,867
From: Frederick, MD
I ran a 12K registration on my 08 F250 for five years before I bought my DRW.
DOT cares about axle and tire ratings and registered weight and then of course your license.
DOT cares about axle and tire ratings and registered weight and then of course your license.
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Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Likes: 1
Most people would never do the load balancing necessary to get both axles at max capacity. In many cases it would not even be possible. Ford would be getting sued left and right by people who couldn’t load to give without overloading the axle. Ford also wouldn’t sell as many drw.
Was it safe? Probably, but I don't like running in the margins. So I traded the 3209# payload of the F250 for the 34xx# payload of the F350 and am now nearly 1000# UNDER the RAWR. Go figure.
The important thing to understand is that GVWR is an arbitrarily assigned rating (not a mechanical limit). The axle ratings depend on tire, axle and suspension limits.
Freshman User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
I tow a 13,999 gross lb 5th wheel with my 2107 Lariat Value pkg, 6.7L CCSB and exactly 3500 lb payload.
I just make it under payload. I would not want to tow anything heavier.
2800 lb pin weight
37 LB Andersen 5th wheel hitch
400 lbs of people in the cabin
150 lbs of dog and stuff in the cabin
I just make it under payload. I would not want to tow anything heavier.
2800 lb pin weight
37 LB Andersen 5th wheel hitch
400 lbs of people in the cabin
150 lbs of dog and stuff in the cabin
Thanks for posting!
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 324
Likes: 8
From: Austin, TX
My father has a Dodge 3/4-ton that he has registered well above the 8800# (or whatever the GVWR was back in 2005) since his state allows him to do so. He stays under the 2005 1-ton SRW limits since they were identical except for the rear springs.
I'm just curious, why did Ford choose 11500#? Why not 12000# or 12500#? I don't think you run into the medium duty class until 14000#. Maybe it was marketing. Maybe it was some other mechanical limit.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 37,383
Likes: 1,867
From: Frederick, MD
a lot has to do with the cost of insurance for companies that want a truck for commercial use.
There are also some of the states that place extra burdens on trucks over 10K registrations.
Maryland, where I am, is not so bad.
There are also some of the states that place extra burdens on trucks over 10K registrations.
Maryland, where I am, is not so bad.
Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Likes: 1
I understand your arguments and agree that the 9900#, 10000#, and 11400# are all available for registration purposes.
I've probably temporarily forgotten something obvious. If the safe GVW limits are represented by the sum of the gross axle ratings, what competitive advantage does Ford enjoy by limiting the F-350 SRW GVWR to 11500#? If the axle ratings are the whole story, Ford could have a default GVWR of 13230#. Ford could then simply continue to derate it on paper for folks who want it for registration purposes. It would seem like a max GVWR of 13230# would be advantageous for them (certainly in TX is isn't a problem for registration), so why would they choose to arbitrarily assign an upper limit of 11500#? I think there must be a bit more to the story.
I've probably temporarily forgotten something obvious. If the safe GVW limits are represented by the sum of the gross axle ratings, what competitive advantage does Ford enjoy by limiting the F-350 SRW GVWR to 11500#? If the axle ratings are the whole story, Ford could have a default GVWR of 13230#. Ford could then simply continue to derate it on paper for folks who want it for registration purposes. It would seem like a max GVWR of 13230# would be advantageous for them (certainly in TX is isn't a problem for registration), so why would they choose to arbitrarily assign an upper limit of 11500#? I think there must be a bit more to the story.
Haven't you ever wondered why you could order the same truck with a variety of GVWR numbers? Heck, with all the various possible tire and suspension numbers, isn't it strange that they can make everything add up to even numbers like 10,000 or 11,400 or whatever?
It ain't simple and the manufactures don't make it easy. You can be under the tow rating, but over the payload. You can be under the payload and over the axle rating. And that's just non-commercial. Start hauling for hire and see how complicated it can really get.
As you say, here in TX the GVWR isn't a consideration for registration, but it is for licencing. Without derating the GVWR, I would have to have a Class A exempt drivers license to pull my fifth wheel. In many states the registration and/or insurance would be significantly more each year.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 324
Likes: 8
From: Austin, TX
Yes, I understand there are a number of considerations that go in to GVWR, but I'm not going to try to explain them (even if I remembered all the details of vehicle class ratings).
Haven't you ever wondered why you could order the same truck with a variety of GVWR numbers? Heck, with all the various possible tire and suspension numbers, isn't it strange that they can make everything add up to even numbers like 10,000 or 11,400 or whatever?
It ain't simple and the manufactures don't make it easy. You can be under the tow rating, but over the payload. You can be under the payload and over the axle rating. And that's just non-commercial. Start hauling for hire and see how complicated it can really get.
As you say, here in TX the GVWR isn't a consideration for registration, but it is for licencing. Without derating the GVWR, I would have to have a Class A exempt drivers license to pull my fifth wheel. In many states the registration and/or insurance would be significantly more each year.
Haven't you ever wondered why you could order the same truck with a variety of GVWR numbers? Heck, with all the various possible tire and suspension numbers, isn't it strange that they can make everything add up to even numbers like 10,000 or 11,400 or whatever?
It ain't simple and the manufactures don't make it easy. You can be under the tow rating, but over the payload. You can be under the payload and over the axle rating. And that's just non-commercial. Start hauling for hire and see how complicated it can really get.
As you say, here in TX the GVWR isn't a consideration for registration, but it is for licencing. Without derating the GVWR, I would have to have a Class A exempt drivers license to pull my fifth wheel. In many states the registration and/or insurance would be significantly more each year.
The same truck with different GVWR never bothered me since I recognize some folks suffer with punitive registration fees or insurance or taxes. It makes sense to derate the truck on paper in those cases. What I always assumed...which may be utter nonsense...is that the UPPER LIMIT (11500# in the SRW F-350 case) was based on something physical (after all, we aren't at the 14K threshold for the medium duty trucks). Maybe it was that the CCLB 4x4 version of the F-350 with 20" wheels and 3.55 gearing couldn't brake/climb/back-up to specification if loaded to 11600# while all the others could. Thus for simplicity they called 11500# the limit for the whole line.
I doubt anyone knows outside of Ford, but if we knew, it would sure help with the ubiquitous arguments here regarding the merits/risks of exceeding GVWR.
Cross-Country
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 77
Likes: 1
Just in case we haven't beat the GVWR horse to death and someone is still wondering about it, google GVWR derating. Here's one article that it brought up and it is about Ford.
Re-rating GVWR: Why and How it's Done - Articles - Operations - Articles - Work Truck
GVWR is not simple, but the bottom line for me pulling a fifth wheel is that RAWR is my limiting factor. Hopefully, my TV and RV will be under their respective GVWR's and GCWR, but I'm not as concerned because they are paperwork limits rather than (hard) design limits.
Re-rating GVWR: Why and How it's Done - Articles - Operations - Articles - Work Truck
GVWR is not simple, but the bottom line for me pulling a fifth wheel is that RAWR is my limiting factor. Hopefully, my TV and RV will be under their respective GVWR's and GCWR, but I'm not as concerned because they are paperwork limits rather than (hard) design limits.