Howdy.

I have a lot going on in this thread so bear with me... trying to be thorough and make the right choice before dropping another $2500-3000 on this POS.

I've got a 2000 F250 7.3 w/ZF6, it is modified a bit and should be all set up and ready for bigger injectors...

GTP38R
HPX
FRX
S&B intake
MBPR 4" turbo-back
EBPV delete
Gearhead tunes on a T&S cheap-chip
South Bend 400 HP clutch

Random, semi-related facts;

- #1 I want this thing reliable and running strong for another 180k miles.

- #2 The truck needs to pass emissions in Denver. It's a particulate count only test.

- #3 I don't tow much... maybe a light load twice a year... like 5k lbs on a trailer. However, I do plan to carry a truck camper on long trips in the future

- #4 As currently set up, I have never seen EGTs over 1100F or boost over 25 PSI, even going up "the pass" on I-70 at 80 MPH

- #5 I hate black smoke and want it running clean

- #6 I'd like to make as much power as reliably possible (400 WHP seems attainable but not priority) - not opposed to doing the HPOP as well but it doesn't seem to have any issues currently

The problem; It starts like *** anytime it's below 40F. At 20F or less it's got to be plugged in or it won't even attempt to fire. When it does fire, it runs like *** for about 15 minutes or until it's warm. From what I understand from research, these are two separate issues. When it is really cold I typically run the glow plugs through one full cycle, I do not rely on the "wait to start" light so much as the GPR status LED I wired in.

Batteries are new;the battery cables have been cleaned up with terminals replaced. I have plenty of juice.

Oil is fresh and full; I run 15W40 Rotella w/Archoil and have no interest in running thinner oils to make up for ****ty injectors.

Glow plug relay works;. I have a status LED wired up in-cab.

Glow Plugs are probably junk; They're definitely some cheap **** from Vatozone that the PO installed. This might explain the hard starts... I have a new Motorcraft set ready to go

Based on my semi-educated research, all signs seem to point to old worn out/crudded up injectors and a few bad glow plugs. Glow plugs are easy but injectors? ... decisions decisions decisions...

The decision I need to make; Whether to calm my inner speed beast and just go with new Alliant stock split shots... OR to up the ante and get some Stage1, 1.5 or 2 sticks from Gearhead with some new tuning and a Hydra (so I no longer have to pull the ECU to update tunes).

My questions for you guys;

- Are my research, troubleshooting and assumptions correct? Are injectors a good idea?

- Considering my concerns (#1 through 6) listed above, what would you do?

 

You should probably diagnose the hard start issue first before spending money on injectors.

If it's glow plugs, you can determine that with an ohm meter. If it's injectors, the easy way is to pull the valve covers and watch the oil discharge at start up and compare it to how it is when warmed up.

I can't help with the smog test thing, so your best bet would be to reach out to Gearhead if those are the tunes you like. Matt should be able to tell you what will and what won't work for smoke and smog tests.

 

Even with the GPR LED, you could have a marginal GPR. Test it and then ohm out the individual GPs. I've looked at the mod, and the LED will still light but dimmer as the GPR gets iffy.

I'm no help on the injectors, ask me again in a year or two. But with that said, you have really described cold start problems, nothing to point at the injectors from my limited knowledge.

 

I did speak with Gearhead as well as Unlimited (injector builder) and a few reputable local shops. No one would give me a good answer on emissions except the local shops: "It all depends on the tunes" ... vague.... I was hoping to get some first hand accounts!

As for glow-plugs and relays... I have new-in-the-box Alliant GPR, Motorcraft GP's, Under-cover harness and VC Gaskets ready to go, regardless of the injectors.

That injector test sounds like several VC pulls and a big oily mess... And not very fun on my truck with the 38R intake tube, S&B and Riff Raff couplings. It's a mild pain in the *** to get in there with as tight as all these new parts fit. I'd rather pull them only once.

Is avoiding all that worth the ~$2k gamble? Maybe.. if I get to make another 100 HP and meet all my criteria

 

You'll already have the valve covers off to do the glow plugs. Wouldn't be hard to fire it up to watch the oil before you put it back together. The oil deflectors keep the oil from spraying everywhere, as they point straight back down at the heads. Just make sure they're all there before you start! It would definitely be worth saving a few grand! Mine had the same symptoms and it was glow plugs. I had 7 that were bad, and the 1 that was good had a burnt wire in the UVCH so it wasn't working either

 

It's actually not a mess. You can run the engine at idle without the valve covers and not have a drop of oil hit the floor.

 

Do you run it with the turbo pipes/intake off too? I suppose at idle they wouldn't really be necessary...

 

From Swamp's:

"As a very broad average, we typically see normal wear on the oil side of the injector begin to cause drivability, performance, and poor running (particularly on a cold engine) at approximately 200,000 miles. Some trucks have hard cold start, or very low power when cold as early as 165-180k miles…and very few make it past 220,000 miles without some of these symptoms."

That sums up my issues pretty well.

 

yes. Turbo still bolted down. No air filter or intake piping.

 

You can leave the intercooler pipes off for the test as long as you're not in a dust storm or something.

Remember to plug the 42 pin connector back in before trying to start.

 

You can see in my signature the upgrades that I've done. I can't help you with which injectors are right for you, but I can give you some insight on the emissions. I recently did Bellowed up pipes and a turbo rebuild and just did emissions here in Colorado Springs, El Paso County. They check opacity and up to 35% opacity is considered passing. My truck with 373K passed emissions with a max reading at 60 mph of only 8% opacity.
What did your last emissions look like?

 

Thanks, that is good to know! Mine passed fine when I first got it.. shockingly. The truck was in bad shape. I don't recall the opacity but it's good to know you passed with larger sticks.

What tune were you running? Are those single shots?

 

Waiting to see what you do. I vote glow plugs and relay with the gaskets. I'd start there. Unless you just want injectors. When mine did that in Wyoming, it was the relay only and it fixed the problem.

 

#1, #2, #4, and #5 would be to stay OEM on everything. #3 says you want to have it loaded but perform likes it's empty and #6 tells me you are not as interested about #1 unless you want to drop a chunk of $$$. You can have it all if you want to spend the $$$ but you said....
If it were me I would change out the GPs and see if that did anything since you already have them then go from there. Just my .02

If you go with sticks be ready for some possiblities (cups, gaskets, harnesses, tuning) that may or may not arise once you go down that rabbit hole.

 

Thanks for actually reading it all.

Getting the tuning right wouldn't be a big deal, for ease of changes I would get a new Hydra with any injectors I buy (running T&S cheap-chip now). I hate removing that thing - PITA. Cups would be slightly more tragic but if they are bad... they are bad. I have new gaskets/harnesses sitting in a box with the new GPs. Unless I am missing something, the only real cost here would be the sticks and tunes, maybe cups.

#6 would be fun but is not priority over #1 and #2. I certainly don't mind dropping money on the truck. I'm already so far into it ($$$) that I'll never recover.

Can I really have it all? Will getting the right injectors/tune get me all that I want or is there anything I am missing?