Hey Fellas,
I tried to start a thread in the new "ecoBoost" section, but alas i couldn't find a "start" button... So here we are. Apologies.
I have a 2013 3.5L with a ton of mods. its making over 500HP and over 600ftlbsTQ courtesy of Full-Race, aFe, Banks, Borla, SCT, MPT, and Snow Performance. Its definitely funner than fun. but in all the mods,
One thing that hasn't changed, (even with new ring & pinion ratio, & tires to match, lol) there is no 2nd-1/2 gear. First gear is so low that with the added power its an almost immediate shift to second, and then shifting from second to third is a huge jump. In my daily driving of the canyon roads, i find that I'm always between 2nd & 3rd, and second is redlining, while 3rd is bogging until the turbos spool up to 8lbs boost and the water/meth kicks in and loads the crank. I wish there was that 2nd-1/2 gear, which leads me to think a 10 speed retrofit would be awesome. After an overheat melted the lead harness in my 6R80 and had it rebuilt 3 times before Ford figured it out, its working well and I even have a new spare 6R80 on a shelf. But Has anyone done a retrofit yet? Id like to know if the computer will relate to the 2013...?

 

I very seriously doubt you can retrofit a 10 speed...but with $$$$...?

 

The hardware swap would be easy. The software swap.....now that would likely be a nightmare.

 

A gear vendors under/overdrive would be a much easier retrofit.

If you got a overdrive unit, you could split first and second to keep it from bogging on the 2-3 shift and lengthen out the 1-2.

Maybe not as sexy as a 10sp retrofit but nearly as useful and infinitely more pragmatic.

To do a 10sp swap you would need a donor vehicle from which you could pull the trans, PCM, and harness. Would probably require a dash swap to talk to the 2017 gauge cluster as well. Probably other issues with simple stuff like turn signals as well as that is all controlled by the PCM now.

GV would be far easier

Another option would be to backwards swap a 4r75e. Just as complicated as swapping in the 10sp but when you are done with this swap you would realize how good you have it with the 6r80 .

 

I think I'd buy a 2018 truck and mod to my hearts content.

 

i was thinking of this the other week as a what if my engine died situation, so i compared wiring diagrams, only because the ECU plugs look very similar to 11-14. it would have to be done as a full swap with the 17 engine as there is a new network the transmission and engine use to communicate between the ecu but that wiring would be standalone from the rest of the truck and only part of the engine/transmission harness. And then there the addition of secondary port fuel injection, wasn't able to find much information on fuel line routing for that but again the wiring for those additional injectors is in the harness and run to the ECU, the issue would be getting the body side of the wiring to work with the power train side. again this was just a thought and i haven't put too much effort into it... just thought it would be sick to swap a raptor high output ecoboost

 

Practically impossible.

 

just as impossible as swapping my 2012 xlt interior to a 13/14 platinum and gaining fully functioning options as a platinum such as sony premium sound flow through console with ambient lighting, 10 way power heated cooled seats and 8'' MFT..... i mean sync 3 with apple car play now.... so practically impossible.....maybe?

 

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me the advantage of the 10 speed. The 6 speed is busy enough as it is. They added gears and then programmed it to routinely skip a bunch of them.

P.S. -- After re-reading the original post, I think he'd be better off saving the money for the new engine he's going to need when this one goes bang.

 

Well said !

 

The problem is going to be getting the PCM to cooperate with the transmission. Unfortunately the 1st gen 3.5L EB was never offered with the 10-speed, and a PCM from a 2nd gen probably wouldn't work because of all the changes with the 2nd gen engine.

It would probably be cheaper to buy a newer truck than get a 10-speed swap to work.

 

I think the advantage is towing ability and fuel mileage.

with more transmission gears to choose from you can do more with less rear end gearing. that is to say, because you have more gears in the transmission, you can pull with 3.31 rear gears what it once took 3.73 or 4.10 gears to pull.

as an example, with my old 4-speed in my expedition, when towing heavy i can choose to go up the hills at 2600 rpm, or 4100 rpm. that's it. usually 2600 rpm doesn't make enough power, so it has to downshift and run at 4100. and when running in 2nd, i have more power on tap than i "need" and can usually accelerate up any hill with relative ease. if there was something in between, i wouldn't have to run it so hard up the hills.

with the 6 speed, i could run at 2300, 3000, or 4000 depending on need. assuming the same 3.73 gears.

with the 10 speed, even if i go down to a 3.31 gear, assuming i can't use an overdriven gear, i can run at 2300, 3000, 3600, 4200, or even 5100 rpm. So when towing, i have far more ability to keep the engine in the power band even with taller rear end gears. and the nice thing about it is that it can shift from any gear to any gear if needed. while not likely, it is possible to go from 10th to 1st in a single shift, and then back to 10th in a single shift without having to row through them all.

with 10 gears to choose from, it is unlikely that you would need them all every time you accelerate, but when you need more power, whether it is a little or a lot, the transmission can put you there. and as i said, it can do it directly and not have to row through all the steps to get from 7th to 3rd, if needed, it can do it directly.

their mantra of "the right gear at the right time" makes a lot of sense, and it is what they have been able to accomplish with the 10speed. According to Ford and GM, the payoff above 10 gears is rather minimal, so it may be that we never see more than 10.

I'm fairly excited about the 10R80, and i was very critical of the 6R80 when i first got one at work. as you said, the 6 speed seems busy, but in reality even with 60% more gears, i don't think it is going to shift 60% more than the 6 speed, simply because it can skip gears as needed.

my thoughts.

back to my original thought, a Gear Vendor's overdrive could give you what amounts to a 12speed

 

Once again, well said. What would be really cool would be to integrate the GV controller/switch into the FX4 shift handle so it was reminiscent of a truck with a 2-speed rear end.
Another thought. I'm assuming the GV is electrically shifted with a servo/actuator... Use a normally closed (NC) relay and tie it into the 4x4 indicator circuit so the GV is disabled when in 4WD.

 

x2...right here.

 

that was what I disli ked about the 4R70W. Was the gear spacing between 3rd and 4th. I love the 6 speed in my 2013. (For towing) for normal driving, the 4 spd was fine. The 10 speed will be an improvement over the 6 speed for fuel economy..IMHO.