It took a turbo along with upgraded pump and injectors to make my IDI tow anywhere near as well as my 460. Ballparking numbers, I spent around $1400 on pump and injectors and $1000 all in for a used turbo (Banks wastegated). A C6 to ZF5 swap was also criticla in getting appreciable usable power out of it but I won't go there as I did the same on the 460 truck.

I was all in around $1500 to build a 460 around 400 HP and 550 ft/lbs, and swap it in place of a 351w. That's using D3VE heads I ported on the exhaust side. Nothing special about the build. Cheap hyper flat tops, 9.8:1 compression, straight up double roller timing set, Weiand Stealth intake, 750DP Holley. It gets about 10.5 MPG towing 5500 lbs at 70 MPH. Interestingly it burns 6-7 GPH towing my boat at 65-70 MPH and my boat (inboard ski boat, 454 with 850DP Holley) burns 6-7 GPH towing me at 22 MPH... Random fact for the day, but that indicates the load is similar to each engine.

If you want power from a 460 with factory heads you need to port the exhaust, they're terribly restrictive and got a LOT worse with the EFI heads which had a much worse exhaust port. A stock smog era 8:1 compression 460 is gonna be pretty terrible just like a stock IDI, so be aware of that. You just can't compare a stock smog era or EFI 460 to a budget rebuild done right. Do the same budget rebuild on an IDI and you still got a torqueless wonder.

What I'm saying is dollar for dollar you'll get a lot more HP and torque out of a 385 series engine with a very simple build and no more money spent than a stock rebuild. You go into a 460 truck knowing to make it tow you gotta rebuild the engine even if it performs like it did in 1986, that smog engine sucked in 1986 and it still sucks today, but for less than you'd spend on just a pump, injectors, and turbo for your leaky smokey 200k+ mile IDI you have a brand new high output 460 that performs at least as good. The moeny saved pays for a lot of that pricey ULSD + whatever you run to keep your pump from dying young.

 

What for a cam? Also you claim youre spinning 6500 on stock rods / rod bolts?

 

Cam was a Lunati 61602, I did not expect it to pull that hard up high. It was a big soggy down low but pulled like on off/on switch from 3000-6500 where it ran out of steam. Yes, stock truck rods and bolts, spun it to 6500 many times, it would spin 38's on the shifts. Stock rods are RPM limited, but where the failure point is depends a lot on how much weight you have hanging off the end of the rod, hypereutectic pistons are generally pretty light. In any event it was a hoot to drive but not the best for towing as it needed to be wound out pretty high to stay in the powerband after shifts.

I ended up changing the cam to a Comp XE 262/270 which I think is perfect for how I used the truck. That cam has a boatload of torque from just off idle through 5500 RPM. Not as fun to drive but much more practical. Sacrificed peak HP for more area under the torque curve. It's more forgiving and doesn't need to be wound out so high with this cam. I actually normally shift by 2000 RPM or so and it scoots pretty good for a 6000 lbs truck, to feel similar in performance my IDI needs to be wound out to 2500+ RPM.

If I were to build a tow pig and have no considerations for government inspections I would be torn between a really stout IDI pushing a lot of boost, for better MPG/range or a 545 stroker burning 87 octane (given the price spread between octane ratings now vs 5-10 years ago) for a probable lower TCO with my use and more HP/torque. I'd have to crunch the numbers.

 

I missed this earlier. Not 2.5 ton by curb weight, rather rated as a 2.5 ton truck, as opposed to an F350/1 ton. The International has an 18K GVWR, and makes the F350 look like a Ranger in size comparison. The International would have zero issues moving the weight, it's just going to gear out around 55mph on the freeway. I don't have a picture of mine handy, but it's essentially this with a longer deck on it -




All I wanted was a reliable tow rig. I don't need to pull 30K up an 8% grade at 80mph, nor do I need to be any kind of dyno king. I bought the F350 at the time due to the desire to carry a truck camper as well as pull my Samurai on a trailer. The 1/2 ton I had at the time just didn't have the payload capacity to carry the camper alone, much less pull the trailer as well. I also needed a long bed for the camper, and I wanted a big block engine , and 4WD with solid axle as well. Also preferred a crew cab, with an overdrive transmission. That pretty much limited me to Fords. Preferably under $5K. That limited me to early 90's trucks. Dodge didn't make a truck with a big block gas motor at that time period, and everyone wants a gold plated ******** for any of the Cummins trucks. Chevy went to IFS front on the NBS trucks, which knocked those out.

All I wanted was something capable of pulling that weight at 65mph down the freeway, and would do so reliably. I know a 30 year old 460 wouldn't match the performance of a modern V8, and wasn't expecting it to. I knew I'd be going slower with it, and MPGs would be dismal in comparison. Years back I had an '89 C3500 with the 454. I routinely put 20K behind that truck, and it pulled it just fine. Got 7mpg loaded, 8mpg empty, lol. Plus the TH400 non OD trans meant it sucked on the freeway due to high RPMs. From what I'm seeing on paper, the 460 and 454 were similar in performance, and anecdotally, largely from what I've seen on RV forums, the Fords seemed to be a better tow rig with the 460s than the Chevys with the 454s.

The reality of the fuel mileage difference between the diesel and gas motors is a non issue to me. A HEAVY mileage year for me is 2,000 miles on the truck. I've had this Ford for about 10 months now, and have put less than 600 miles on it. At today's fuel prices, and assuming 8mpg on a gas truck, and the 12mpg I've been seeing in the diesel, that's a difference of $35 for a year. I've already gone well past $35 in increased maintenance costs on the diesel. Even making an assumption of 15mpg on the diesel, I'm seeing a difference of $62...which means I'd pretty much break even between the two.

Bump that up to my expected 1000 miles a year, and I'm seeing a difference of roughly $100 in favor of the diesel in fuel costs, assuming the 15mpg diesel/8mpg gas. If I go by my actual 12mpg seen in the diesel, the difference drops to $60....again, by the time maintenance costs are factored in, I'm breaking even at best, but more likely the gas truck will win out on overall operations cost.

 

A turbo idi in decent tune will do 12-15k CGVW. I would tow 15k behind mine, and it was more than it wanted (22ish CGVW). I really think you have some kind of abstract issue. You are not asking anything more of the engine than it can handle, especially with a turbo. I used to tow 5-6k all the time NA with 3.55 gears and 35's, just fine on level ground, most hills you were grabbing 4th, if it was over 4% you were grabbing 3rd if it was very long.

Given that the vehicle doesnt get used much, a diesel is even more suited. Dont have to worry about fuel going bad, mice / rabbits eating plug wires, and they generally seem to take sitting easier than a gas engine does.

 

Jeez, for a 1000 miles a year who cares what it is, how fast it goes, or if it even has doors. Get a $500 beater with an FE and NP in it and call it done.

 

Yeah...that's why I'm seriously leaning towards just getting the International back on the road, and using that.

$500 trucks don't really exist here. When they do pop up, they're a thoroughly trashed Ranger, S10, Datsun, etc. The last few years it seems that anything that's running and driveable is at least a $1500 truck, and if I want something that can actually work instead of just getting me from point A to point B..most of the time...it's $3000+. Which is why I snapped this one up pronto when it came along at $2000. I figured it would be easy enough to resell it and get my money back out of it again.

My big reason for the "newer" truck was getting more room in the cab with a crew cab, and having a halfway decent heater and A/C system...living in Phoenix and all, A/C is an awfully nice thing to have in the summer, lol. I just wanted something I could get in and use, without having to do yet another project vehicle. The plan didn't exactly meet the execution, lol.

 

FWIW, there's a guy @ Oilburners that rents out the timing equipment for the IDI. He also will help you via phone to guide you if you have any problems/questions. Don't remember his name, but if he's still active over there he'll be easy to find.
Don't even know if my info is current, it's been a few years since I dealt with the ***.... uh.... esteemed gentlemen over there.
Yeah, for 2K I'd say you did really good.

 

Heh...same thing I've said about the folks at the oldihc forum...couple guys that frequently go off on completely unrelated directions, unloading all kinds of rant about something, which (not surprisingly), completely derails the thread. If I try to get it back on track, I'M the *** for doing it, lol. I'm also the *** for looking for things like modern axles to drop under my 1955 truck, because apparently 1955 was the absolute pinnacle of safety engineering and I'm going to kill multiple busloads of nuns and puppies by even pondering the thought of changing it out, despite half the brake parts not even being available for these axles since about 1980. So I guess running on worn, ancient, brake parts is safer than new, modern parts

Honestly, I'm really beginning to think it's more than just a timing issue in this truck now. I'll back it off a bit to see it makes a difference, but I'm really not interested in putting any real money into this truck at this point. I'm planning on working on the brakes on the International this weekend, and it may work out to be that truck works for me just fine as is. Otherwise, I'm just going to back off the timing on the Ford back to where it was before I started all this mess, sell it, and buy another gas truck. The emissions laws down here make it a real pain in the *** to do any kind of motor swap these days, much less going from diesel to gas. Not to mention, Arizona considers 1 ton trucks to be a commercial truck, regardless of whether its registered for personal use or not, thus it's also subject to an annual weight fee in addition to yearly registration fees. So my license tags are essentially double what they would otherwise be on a 3/4 ton truck.

 

I had a '55 Cadillac once. Had some cancer and the interior was held together by mold. Broken crankshaft took out the block. Still thought I could fix it up to be a neat cruiser, but found out that the 331 used in '55 was a one of deal, couldn't go 54 or 56 without swapping the transmission as well. None of them easy to source.
I tried to look into a boring 350 sbc swap just to get it moving and at least GM powered with parts nearly available at K B Toys. Oh wow, did I get flamed on that suggestion. (At a leading Cadillac forum at that time, don't remember if it was egroups, Yahoo, or Usenet?) You would have thought I suggesting cutting the top off and seal up the seams and turn it into a schooner. Soon lost interest and sold it off.
Today I'd do it without their input, negative people don't get things done.

 

Heh...and I am with an International that I DID put a SBC Chevy in...yep, Heretic I am! Similar flames, along with much "But the IH motors make all their power down low where it COUNTS for a 4x4!" Yeah...and IH motors run out of breath by 3500RPM, and the LT1 I put in not only makes more power by 2500 than the IH V8 peaked at, it continued pulling like a freight train to 5500RPM. Oh, and it's about 300lbs lighter too, and gets triple the fuel economy. But no, the IH motors were again, the pinnacle of automotive engineering.

Ironically, I kind of lost interest in that truck too. It's been parked on the side of the house for a couple years now, only getting new fuel pumps every 6-8 months when I feel like doing something with it, and find out the pump froze up with old fuel yet again. 3 pumps, and it's gone less than a mile in that time....I probably should sell that one too.

 

This is what I did when I put a new pump on my e250. I believe it was about $75 to rent. He paid shipping to me and I paid shipping back. He was available via phone for any questions.

To the OP. I would spend the $75 for renting the timing equipment, or buy timing equipment and resell it if you get rid of the truck.....or even after you use it this one time. The truck you have should do what you are asking without any issues and should be seeing better MPG than you are getting. If $75 fixes it, then great. If it doesn't, then you only wasted the $75.

For reference, my NA 7.3 with a c6 and 3.54's has no issue towing 5-7K lbs behind it. I can set the cruise for 65mph. Big hills will require me to give it a little more throttle than cruise can, but no EGT issues.

If you don't want it, then sell it and get the 460 you seem to want.

 

Keep in mind if you get a 460 truck it's gonna be a gutless wonder and probably not do a whole lot better than the IDI unless you spend $1500-$2000 to build a decent engine. Granted there are things you can do for cheaper to squeeze a little more power out of a smog engine, but there's no silver bullet at 8:1 compression with terribly restrictive exhaust ports. At minimum you'll need headers ($200), straight up double roller timing set+gaskets/seals/etc. ($50), carb ($150-$450), and honestly may as well do a cam as well ($250). You may end up in the same boat of not wanting to spend anything to achieve your goals and dissatisfied with the truck's performance. If you're willing to spend the money it can be a lot more cost effective platform, but if not it may be better to stick with the devil you know.

 

I know your feels. Much the same on the fairlane boards, im quite the blasphemer for putting an 8.8 in my car and not building the 8". Im sure they have a point, i just dont know what it is, i regeared, got posi, narrower axle, disc brakes, and a stronger axle for $200, but that just doesnt make sense compared with dropping $800 into a obsolete old weak rearend.



All im trying to say, if there is even anything wrong with it more so than a faulty gauge. Where are you urbex? I have an adapter and gun i would lend.

 

There you go Ubrex. This way it won't even cost you the $75 to rent the timing equipment.

The way I see it is that anytime you buy an older vehicle for a couple thousand you should expect to have to put some $$ into it......especially if you plan to work it by towing ect. It is possible that you could find one you didn't have to do stuff to, but it is very unlikely. If the OP bought an older 460 truck for the same he spent buying the IDI he would probably have to spend comparable $$ to get it to run the way he wants.

Heck, depending on the shape the body is in I would be tempted to buy it and trailer it back to Indiana. A crew cab 4wd turbo with a good body sounds like it would be worth investing a little $$ into.......but I also DD mine, so the idea of getting 400-500k miles out of it is a big selling point.