1990 F350, 7.3, 5 speed, came to me with a Banks Sidewinder installed. Not a clue who installed it, or if it was done "right". Always was a bear to start cold, even on warm days, and usually resulted in a massive cloud of dirty white smoke, and rough running for the first few seconds. Once warmed up, sounded flat...like a well muffled big block gas motor. Ran hot on the freeway in the summer, even with a brand new 4 core aluminum radiator, and attempting to keep the EGTs below 1100 while towing 5K pounds was virtually impossible at any speed about 45mph. Also never noticed _any_ smoke of any color once warmed up, whether I was lugging it or flooring it under load.

I always suspected the timing was way retarded, but I don't have the tools to time it correctly, and I couldn't find any shop that could do anything beyond timing by ear.

I put a new fuel filter and lift pump on it last month, and noticed afterwards that it could do 2nd gear starts no problem.

I decided to do something with the timing today. The pump was set to be roughly a dime's width turned to the driver's side, and I slowly cranked it over to the passenger side until I could hear just a bit of clatter when revving it in the driveway on a warm motor, which ended up being roughly a dime's width to the passenger side.

Now if I try to do a 2nd gear start, it falls flat on it's face, and nearly stalls out. Reminds me of when the accelerator pump on a gas carb isn't working. Runs smooth, doesn't sound like it's knocking, but also doesn't feel like it's pulling as hard. Still not seeing any smoke under any circumstance once the motor warms up. I'm not trying to get it to "roll coal", nor do I even want it to. It's just my understanding that these motors are supposed to puff a bit under lugging or hard acceleration when it's tuned right.

Wondering if maybe I need to turn up the pump a bit?

 

Too advanced, should haze a little maybe depending on wear and altitude, but no if theyre in perfect tune they shouldnt smoke or haze.

 

what size exhaust and air filter? What gear ratio? The only time I had a problem was pulling a mini ex up a hill with a brake dragging on the trailer. Witn my tractor about 7 k I slow to get going, but can maintain speed.

 

Never really had a problem pulling anything before, it just seemed like EGTs and coolant temp ran way hotter than they should. Even 2K behind me on a 90+ degree day meant the truck was over heating, even with that new 4 core aluminum radiator. Running the A/C wasn't even a remote option. Even on a 60 degree day, with 5K behind me, the temp would climb quick on small hills, getting up to the L in "normal" on the gauge, though it would drop back down once I got back on flat ground. If I got 12MPG empty, that was a damn good tank. Pulling 5K meant my MPGs got into the single digit territory real fast. EGTs while pulling would typically hover around 900, and even the slightest hill would get me flirting with 1200 fast. It pulls the weight just fine, just gets hot doing it.

I did replace the fuel filter and lift pump about a month ago, which seemed to help some, but it's still running hot in temp and EGTs. But then, being my first diesel, I really have nothing to compare to, so I don't really know what I _should_ be seeing/hearing.

4" exhaust, straight through from turbo, dumping in front of the axle. Air filter is a Banks cone filter. Blow by seems normal - won't blow the oil filler cap off, and just a bit of wisping from the dipstick tube at idle. 4.10 gears, 5 speed, QCLB 4x4 with a steel flatbed. Banks Sidewinder turbo.

 

Timing off much in either directions will lead to less than optimal damage. Too advanced is harder on bearings, too retarded harder on exhaust valves and higher EGT with those associated risks. Get the tools and set your timing, or pay someone to do it for you.

Your pump may be getting worn out and have lower output. You could try turning up the fuel screw. IN my experience and from what I've read when they're truly worn all the way out usability issues are hard starting when hot as a common first sign. What you do about it if anything depends on how bad it is and budget. Personally I'd set the timing and then turn up the fuel screw if EGT is in check with proper timing. If that doesn't give desired results, a new pump and injectors from either R&D or Conestoga.

 

High pressure pump seems to be doing OK. I never had any issue at all with hot restarts. Always fired up immediately when warm or above. I know the glow plug harness is shot, and I have another to put on. I'm sure that has a lot to do with cold start troubles.

As I said in the first post, I've yet to find _any_ diesel shop around here that has the proper equipment to time these motors, and I'm hesitant to buy tools that I'm likely only going to use once. Same with the pump and injectors..$1200 is an awful lot of money to throw into a truck with an unknown history, and if the MPGs still don't pick up a ton..that's a lot of money down the hole.

At this point, I think I'm just going to back the pump down to where it was before, sell the truck, and put the money into my old International. I drive this thing once a month, if that, and I just don't see the return on investment at this point in the game.

 

A pulse to inductive timing adapter is fairly cheap, I got mine well under $200 at tooldiscounter.com though they don't current list the V765-01 (1/4" clamp). If you own an IDI you need this tool, it's part of the cost of ownership. My timing was retarded, when I set it with this tool the truck gained 3 MPG, EGT was lower, and torque greatly improved. I also check/set timing annually to ensure performance stays good. Just in fuel savings the tool has paid for itself, let alone increased power (45 MPH towing you said, to hopefully not melt pistons?) and being sure my engine won't suffer premature wear or damage from improper timing. Granted my 6.9 with Banks is no powerhouse, but it can comfortably pull 70 MPH in overdrive on level ground. You wouldn't just set a gas engine's timing wherever it runs, why would you do that with a diesel?

It sounds like you need to decide if you want to keep this truck or not, and if not just sell it. Personally mine is my daily driver, pending no accidents where I would consider it totaled or other externalities I intent to keep it and drive it daily for the rest of my life. $200 is peanuts over a few decades, and probably what you'd pay to have it (maybe) timed properly at a shop twice. If you weren't clear across the country I'd offer to time it for you. I do get out to Phoenix every year or two but I don't know when my next trip will be.

 

That's just it - this isn't a daily for me, or even a weekly. It's strictly a heavy hauler/tow rig for me, that I only drive when I need to haul/tow something big. I have a daily driver car that gets 25+MPG already with a round trip commute of 80-100 miles a day, and the Ford can sit for weeks at a time. I was actually looking for a 460 truck when I bought this one..got it cheap enough that I figured I could easily get my money back out of it if I decided it wasn't going to work for me. And quad cab 5 speed 4x4s are pretty rare around here, which I think will work in my favor on resell as well.

If I had someone here local that knew these motors, it might be a different story. I've driven it a total of about 10 miles, unloaded, since I started playing with the timing, so I'm not worried about having caused any major damage to it at this point. But for now...yeah, I'm selling it. There's no good way for me to test the injectors and fuel pump, and I'm not dropping a grand to possibly find out they weren't really needed anyways. Even if I gained 3mpg, it would take me over 3 years just to hit the break even point on the timing adapter. I'll just move the fuel pump back to where it was before I started all of this...it ran OK there, and go back to all gas vehicles.

 

When you say hot egts, how high? How much boost are you building? Have you adjusted the wastegate? Correct me if im wrong, but sounds like you havent turned up the fuel even? Mine with the 088 kit always ran hot. Now i cant get the pyro over 800* and thats with a 110cc pump. Due to their design, IDIs put alot of heat in the head, therefor the cooling system, so if its burning hot, it will run hot. Line up the timing marks, you say before it was a little retarded, and now a little advanced, so try the middle. A little adjustment changes timing quite a bit, and theyre pretty touchy on timing. If its just advanced enough to feel week in the low end, youre only a couple degrees advanced, id guess around 9-11 from what ive played around with my meter and what it does. Does it start the same or have to crank a pinch longer? Its very subtle but another effect of too advanced. If it was advanced enough to cause damage, you would hear it knocking, and it would blow black smoke under little to no load.

 

I haven't adjusted anything at all other than the timing. The truck already had the Banks kit on it when I bought the truck, and as I said before, I don't have a clue if it was adjusted correctly when it was installed or at any time before I got the truck. I thought maybe the fuel needs to be turned up, but that was based on the belief that I was supposed to be seeing some smoke or haze on acceleration, which I haven't at all. Before adjusting the timing, when I finally got it to fire, it would blow a massive cloud of white smoke for a few seconds, and run rough. Once it cleared out, it would smooth out, and blow no smoke at all. I also never saw it blowing any smoke whether I lugged the motor or got on it hard. The one cold start I did after advancing the timing was at night, so I couldn't see what it did or didn't do, smoke wise.

Before I started messing with the timing, it would boost up to 9-10psi without issue. Once the RPMs came up, it would shoot right up to 10, and hold there. Unloaded it would cruise unloaded at 70mph running 600-700*, and typically would be running 5psi of boost there. If I even so much as breathed on the throttle, it would shoot up to around 900-1000*, and roll back down once I got settled back into constant speed. Towing 5K, it was a real bear to keep it below 1000* at freeway speeds, and really seemed to want to run at 1100-1200. I tried dropping gears and keeping the RPM up, but it didn't seem to want to come down below 1000 unless I dropped the speed to 45mph. I know these aren't like modern diesels, but I assumed that 5k on the hitch wasn't asking too much of these trucks either, especially considering even a small block gas truck wouldn't blink an eye at 5K. It also would run the temp gauge up to the L on the "normal" in a jiffy, and took forever to bring it back down. Replacing the fuel filter and lift pump seemed to help a bit in that area, but I haven't run it in hot weather or with the A/C on since replacing them either.

After I advanced the timing, I only ran it unloaded. Cruise EGTs was running 550-600, and boost was 4-5psi. Seemed to start easier when cold, and only felt really weak right off idle. It would roll out in 1st without issue, and would nearly stall if I started in 2nd, but seemed to pull OK once it got rolling..just felt like a touch less power in the butt dyno, and didn't seem to want to pull past 70mph or so..roughly 2500rpm in 5th gear. It would easily hit the governor in 1st-3rd gears.

 

Aluminum melts at 1250*. Mine with banks wastegated turbo and 100cc pump is EGT limited. I try to keep EGT under 1100* most of the time but 1200* is my limit towing up a grade, I'll hold it at 1200* watching the pyro like a hawk. I have my thermocouple in the driver side exhaust manifold at the last cylinder port, your readings may differ if you're using the factory Banks thermocouple location at the pedestal. I suspect you have a little more room on EGT than 1000*. Mine will run 600*-700* on the highway in overdrive unloaded, at 2 psi boost typically.

i have a 460 truck too, basically the same truck but lifted 4" on 35" tires. 460 is de-smogged and built for towing with a broad torque curve around 550 ft/lbs. The 460 will hold speed just fine on anything I've towed 5500-6000 lbs but the IDI towing the same load is EGT limited and before the high output pump just didn't have the power even floored and I'd still have to back out eventually for EGT. The 460 is a better towing engine without a doubt, if you've done a proper build. It will be better dollar per ft/lbs of torque as well. It will burn slightly more fuel though. The 460 is more forgiving, even with the upgrades to my IDI it's not very forgiving of downshifting too late whereas the 460 will power through a late downshift just fine and of course can be run WOT as long as I need with no fear of melting pistons. Probably a lot to do with the boatload of torque from off idle to redline. I've downshifted the 460 late while towing and passed other vehicles up hills screaming at 6500 RPM but not losing appreciable speed. There are ups and downs to each one.

 

I didn't even want a diesel when I went looking for trucks. I had an '05 Hemi Ram prior to this that was an excellent tow rig, but limited in the payload department due to being a 1500, and also was a 2WD that concerned me greatly any time I had to leave the pavement with a trailer attached.

I was specifically looking for a 460 powered truck, though finding a crew cab 4x4 was like searching for a unicorn around here at the time, and I got this diesel for dirt cheap. I'm regretting it now. For what little I drive it, the slightly better fuel mileage of the diesel just isn't a factor for me, especially when offset with the higher fuel cost, and higher maintenance cost. Then I look at the 2.5 ton International in my driveway that just needs the brakes gone through....just sounds like it would make a ton more sense to sell this Ford, and either look for a 460 truck to replace it, or just rely on the International for heavy haul duties.

 

Ive towed 15 behind mine several times before the new engine. There is something funky going on. If it was turned up, it would smoke before the boost rolled in. So being able to hit those egt numbers just doesnt make any sense. Which banks kit is it? I doubt it, but starting to wonder if your pyro isnt off, but normally the fail open circuit and dont read anything. Something isnt adding up though. Also that doesnt explain the overheating unless there is another unrelated problem with the cooling system. All in all it sounds like it runs well, minus a few glowplugs (white smoke at startup). If youre dead set on getting rid of the idi, swapping in a 460 isnt that tough of a job if youre mechanically inclined. Pyro running higher than normal with your foot in it would indicate advanced timing as well, but with the turbo you should be seeing like 500* cruising egts. Even NA engines cruise around 600-700* By comparison, my old engine with 280k on it and a very leaky 088, in order to climb over 1200 i had to have a load on and the throttle flat out buried in the floor for a couple miles going up a grade. 1900-2500 rpm seems to be the sweet spot for egts in all of my engines. Below or above that they creep up under load. Regardless though, something isnt adding up. Only way to get hot egts is lack of air, or too much fuel, or both. You say it doesnt smoke, that rules out overfueling, and you say youre seeing 10 psi, that rules out lack of air. So something has to be incorrect, egts, boost, timing, blockage etc.

 

2.5 ton... Check that, my '86 F-350 crew cab diesel weighs 6600 lbs last time I had it on a scale. It's a good truck and will get you and your load where you need to go.

Honestly though, the only reason I bought a diesel was because NJ cracked down on emissions inspections, shut down the shops I used to buy stickers at, and doesn't do either safety or emissions inspections on old diesels. My 460 truck was originally a 351w, though I got the 460 out of an '86 F-350 wrecker and built it to be a torque monster for towing. Because the VIN has a different letter they won't test it as if some dude 32 years ago checked a different box when he ordered it so it's an automatic fail for government inspection. You probably don't have to deal with such draconian things in AZ.

Because of this I specifically wanted a non EFI emissions exempt tow pig either SuperCab or CrewCab SRW that was suitable to be a daily driver. I would have preferred a '76-'77 Supercab 4x4 460 truck but those are subject to government emissions inspection in NJ, so no dice even though I had my eyes on one out west and was ready to pay top dollar for it. I had to settle for second best. '86 F-350 CrewCab 4x4 is the best Ford has to offer that meets that criteria. Only year of the nice body style with a factory D60 (yes they bolt in other years and F-250, I've done the swap before).

It took me 9 months to find this truck and I drove about 6 hours each way to get it. I've learned to love it. Yes my 460 truck out pulls it hands down, yes the 460 truck is a lot cheaper to own/build/maintain, but the old IDI has grown on me. I've accepted it for what it is and that it takes maybe several times the money and a lot more time to make it perform the same as a 460 truck would. Externalities man, nothing I can do so long as I'm stuck here so I make lemonade and pour dollars into my IDI until it perform as well as my dirt cheap 460 truck. Honestly if you don't have to deal with emissions inspections in AZ I'd just clean up the IDI, do any basic maintenance, and sell for what you can get out of it. Pick up a similar 460 truck and build it into a better weekend tow pig for less invested.

 

Having owned both, and having several of each on the ranch, the comparison between an idi and 460 youre making does NOT make sense. A stock factory turbo idi will tow circles around a 460. Both our 460s get 11mpg unloaded and around 7 with a trailer. Both are efi. I had a 400 in my 79 before the IDI swap, it had a xe256 or similar cam, edelbrock intake 650 edelbrock and headers. Got 13mpg empty 8 towing. Empty it would out run my idi, but even NA the IDI out towed it easily, and was getting 19mpg(empty). The only way to make a 460 tow with a tuned stock idi youre looking at top end if not bottom end, EASILY exceeding the price of a turbo. At the very least you need heads, and that already exceeds the cost of a new turbo. Thats not even looking at larger pumps and/or turbos. Even my D0VE headed 460 was only making about 400hp with cam headers etc etc and got 7-8mpg on a good day, and had to run premium. Hell, with my old engine in the 92 i could walk off and leave our v10 while towing the heavier trailer.

Not trying to derail, i just want the OP to have a realistic expectation. A 460 will not touch a 3rd gen hemi without some serious $$, and probably half the fuel mileage that the hemi gets. Our 2nd gen 5.7 gets about 14 empty and 8ish pulling the aluminum trailer, comparable to our 6.2 (ford), but the 6.2 has way more power.