Just another EGR question
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Junior User
Joined: Nov 2017
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From: Nashville
Just another EGR question
This should be a quick question. I understand what the EGR and smog pump does, but I don't understand how the O2 sensor ties those into the OBD1 diagnostic reading. The bottom line to the direct question is... if EGR and smog pump has been disconnected (I bought it that way) do I still need the O2 sensor? How bad will it throw off my OBD1 diagnostic without it? I have no Cat and no inspections. Thanks to all y'all that has made this forum awesome.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 143
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From: Davie, NC
This should be a quick question. I understand what the EGR and smog pump does, but I don't understand how the O2 sensor ties those into the OBD1 diagnostic reading. The bottom line to the direct question is... if EGR and smog pump has been disconnected (I bought it that way) do I still need the O2 sensor? How bad will it throw off my OBD1 diagnostic without it? I have no Cat and no inspections. Thanks to all y'all that has made this forum awesome.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
Likes: 4,123
From: Angier, NC
Waine, what year truck we talking about? Maybe add it to your signature so we see it all the time?
Ok now the EGR & pump are gone and you want to remove the O2 also?
Do you have anything being controlled by the computer? if so then yes the O2 has to stay as it is giving feed back to the computer on when adjustments have to be made.
Now it might be able to over come the missing EGR & pump and still run ok but remove the O2 and all bets are off on how well it may run.
If you have done a DSII and carb swap so the feed back system is no longer working then yes you can remove it.
side note {hi jack} anyone know if you can use the stock O2 sensor as an AFR meter?
say hooking it to a DMM and getting a reading of say 2 volts and that would be xxAFR? I have 1 from my Ford truck and 2 from my 02 Dodge thinking they might be able to be used that way?
Dave ----
Ok now the EGR & pump are gone and you want to remove the O2 also?
Do you have anything being controlled by the computer? if so then yes the O2 has to stay as it is giving feed back to the computer on when adjustments have to be made.
Now it might be able to over come the missing EGR & pump and still run ok but remove the O2 and all bets are off on how well it may run.
If you have done a DSII and carb swap so the feed back system is no longer working then yes you can remove it.
side note {hi jack} anyone know if you can use the stock O2 sensor as an AFR meter?
say hooking it to a DMM and getting a reading of say 2 volts and that would be xxAFR? I have 1 from my Ford truck and 2 from my 02 Dodge thinking they might be able to be used that way?
Dave ----
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,844
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From: Atlantic Canada
side note {hi jack} anyone know if you can use the stock O2 sensor as an AFR meter?
say hooking it to a DMM and getting a reading of say 2 volts and that would be xxAFR? I have 1 from my Ford truck and 2 from my 02 Dodge thinking they might be able to be used that way?
Dave ----
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
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From: Angier, NC
I know the AFR kits are $$ and being cheap if I could use what I have the gauge should be cheap I hope.
I will have to look for just AFR gauge for this project.
Thanks
Dave ----
edit OUCH! $90 and up!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,844
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From: Atlantic Canada
I thought some work on different milli amp volts? I think some also get power to them to heat them up when the exh is cold to burn off badness?
I know the AFR kits are $$ and being cheap if I could use what I have the gauge should be cheap I hope.
I will have to look for just AFR gauge for this project.
Thanks
Dave ----
I know the AFR kits are $$ and being cheap if I could use what I have the gauge should be cheap I hope.
I will have to look for just AFR gauge for this project.
Thanks
Dave ----
I forget what the range is...0-1 volt or something like that, and the voltage correlates directly to the AFR. The factory sensors are narrow band I believe, which will be a bit crude, but they'll get you in the ballpark.
Somebody on here will know more about it than me, but what you're asking is certainly doable. I did it with my Toyota years ago, but that was a simple 2-wire sensor. I could have used a DMM just as easily.
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Junior User
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From: Nashville
FuzzyFace reply
FuzzFace,
I don't necessarily want to remove it... I have to put on a new exhaust and wanted to save a few bones by leaving it off.
Not going carb. When I put the 96 302 in, I want to bring over the EFI with it and restore the EGR. I'll also put in shorties. I'll only need this exhaust for about 6 months, so I wanted to go as cheap as I can. Maybe have them put the O2 further down on the pipe and Frankstein it into the new?
I'll update my signature. Thanks for all info.
I don't necessarily want to remove it... I have to put on a new exhaust and wanted to save a few bones by leaving it off.
Not going carb. When I put the 96 302 in, I want to bring over the EFI with it and restore the EGR. I'll also put in shorties. I'll only need this exhaust for about 6 months, so I wanted to go as cheap as I can. Maybe have them put the O2 further down on the pipe and Frankstein it into the new?
I'll update my signature. Thanks for all info.
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From: Virginia
If you still have the EFI, it will recognize the EGR not working and or not hooked up, and will throw a code. It will still run ok, but the computer will retard the timing a little bit since it recognizes you do not have EGR anymore and it may make the engine ping.
Deleting the O2 will also throw a code. The O2 sensor is the main sensor for trimming the fuel needed for the engine after it warms up and goes into closed loop. When the engine is cold, it fuels the engine by charts inside it's memory till the engine warms up enough for the O2 sensor to start working. Once that happens it looks to the O2 sensor in closed loop mode and trims the fuel feeding the engine according to what the O2 sensor is telling it.
With the O2 sensor gone, the engine will not go into closed loop. It will still run, usually ok, but your fuel usage can go up. I run without the EGR in my Ranger everyday, but the O2 sensor is important and I would keep it. You also need to keep it up close to the engine so it will warm up enough to work properly.
Deleting the O2 will also throw a code. The O2 sensor is the main sensor for trimming the fuel needed for the engine after it warms up and goes into closed loop. When the engine is cold, it fuels the engine by charts inside it's memory till the engine warms up enough for the O2 sensor to start working. Once that happens it looks to the O2 sensor in closed loop mode and trims the fuel feeding the engine according to what the O2 sensor is telling it.
With the O2 sensor gone, the engine will not go into closed loop. It will still run, usually ok, but your fuel usage can go up. I run without the EGR in my Ranger everyday, but the O2 sensor is important and I would keep it. You also need to keep it up close to the engine so it will warm up enough to work properly.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 524
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From: Maryland
A '96 302 will be OBD2, with that you can tune out the EGR, or put in a couple resistors to override the CEL, there are a few articles about it on various forums.
As Franklin2 said, the O2 sensor is vital to the ECM's operation
As Franklin2 said, the O2 sensor is vital to the ECM's operation
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Junior User
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From: Nashville
Thanks Franklin2. I ran a 31 code today. It does have a ping at low to mid rpms. I checked compression and everything looked fine. Number 4 was a little high but still under 10% difference. Once I get to a point of daily drive and stop dumping cash into the nickel and dime stuff I think I'll get the EGR up and running again. Man all this has been good info. BTW I have a factory manual on the way to help cut some of these rookie questions.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
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From: Angier, NC
I haven't touched an O2 sensor in so long, I can't remember what the readings are, but you can use a factory O2 sensor, and you can read it with a digital multi-meter no problem. There are videos on Youtube...I just watched one the other day actually.
I forget what the range is...0-1 volt or something like that, and the voltage correlates directly to the AFR. The factory sensors are narrow band I believe, which will be a bit crude, but they'll get you in the ballpark.
Somebody on here will know more about it than me, but what you're asking is certainly doable. I did it with my Toyota years ago, but that was a simple 2-wire sensor. I could have used a DMM just as easily.
I forget what the range is...0-1 volt or something like that, and the voltage correlates directly to the AFR. The factory sensors are narrow band I believe, which will be a bit crude, but they'll get you in the ballpark.
Somebody on here will know more about it than me, but what you're asking is certainly doable. I did it with my Toyota years ago, but that was a simple 2-wire sensor. I could have used a DMM just as easily.
I did see the stock truck O2 is 0-1 volt sensor (narrow band) so need to find a gauge that works with that. Most I find on Summit Racing are wide band O2.
FuzzFace,
I don't necessarily want to remove it... I have to put on a new exhaust and wanted to save a few bones by leaving it off.
Not going carb. When I put the 96 302 in, I want to bring over the EFI with it and restore the EGR. I'll also put in shorties. I'll only need this exhaust for about 6 months, so I wanted to go as cheap as I can. Maybe have them put the O2 further down on the pipe and Frankstein it into the new?
I'll update my signature. Thanks for all info.
I don't necessarily want to remove it... I have to put on a new exhaust and wanted to save a few bones by leaving it off.
Not going carb. When I put the 96 302 in, I want to bring over the EFI with it and restore the EGR. I'll also put in shorties. I'll only need this exhaust for about 6 months, so I wanted to go as cheap as I can. Maybe have them put the O2 further down on the pipe and Frankstein it into the new?
I'll update my signature. Thanks for all info.
Dave ----
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Posts: 56,984
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From: Virginia
So if you did read a correctly running setup, the voltage jumps back and forth all the time. If the O2 sensor runs rich all the time, and the computer can't lean it out, after a period of time it will set a code and go into open loop. There is a "O2 sensor running rich" code and one for running lean also.
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
Likes: 4,123
From: Angier, NC
You can read the O2 sensor if you are having problems and want to troubleshoot. When it is working correctly, the voltage will swing back and forth, rich to lean. I am not sure what the exact voltages would be. But it swings rich, the computer sees that and then leans the engine some. The O2 sensor then switches to lean, the computer reads this and then richens the mixture again.
So if you did read a correctly running setup, the voltage jumps back and forth all the time. If the O2 sensor runs rich all the time, and the computer can't lean it out, after a period of time it will set a code and go into open loop. There is a "O2 sensor running rich" code and one for running lean also.
So if you did read a correctly running setup, the voltage jumps back and forth all the time. If the O2 sensor runs rich all the time, and the computer can't lean it out, after a period of time it will set a code and go into open loop. There is a "O2 sensor running rich" code and one for running lean also.
I have 3 O2 sensors 2 from my 02 Dodge 1 from the motor that is in my 81. I have found the O2's look to be narrow band and most gauges are for wide band.
More looking is needed for this to work.
Thanks guys
Dave ----
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