I have a stuck injector: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post17629276

I just had the set remanned and upgraded at Rosewood Diesel and #7 came back with the same problem

Since I am not an injector expert, I'll give the info I have and see if you guys have any ideas.

I had my splitshots converted and upgraded to singleshot 160/80's with Premium Rebuild. Here is what parts that includes, in addition to the conversion stuff.



In that link above, there is a video in which you can clearly see #7 injector is free flowing air through the oil channel and out through its spout. Engine off, batteries disconnected, so no UVCH/electrical possibilities.

What other parts could be bad? Solenoid? Something else? I was under the impression that basically everything except the body and solenoid was being replaced, but not being an expert on it...

A new solenoid is about $50. Are there other parts in there that could be sticking?

Thanks!

 

Maybe a rolled internal oring?

me? Not interested the cause...just interested in getting it fixed.

 

I'm wondering if there would be any educational benefit to running a buzz test with the valve covers off, to see if I can notice anything?

Other than sound, what would I watch for?

Can anyone tell me about the part that would be sticking open for the oil passages? At least that would give me some terms to see if I can find any more info on it

I figure along with the new tool I made, understanding what is causing these kinds of injector failures might be helpful to fellow members and/or future members who encounter the same symptoms.

Thanks!

 

Did/does the injectors come with an evaluation report..etc. You'd think its more than just a replace these items with these new parts, and then off they go...

 

Your poppet valve is stuck open, happened to my #1 injector after I spent a good eight hours machining tools to get a broken armature plate bolt out of it. See if you can lightly tap on the armature plate (I would use a brass head hammer or a similar soft-faced striking tool) to see if you can get it re-seated and then apply pressure to see if it pops back open.

I am not 100% sure what caused mine to stick open, all I know is it happened at 2130 one night at the body shop, so I had to make some calls and throw a new reman unit in to get the thing going again for the body shop.

As far as I know they will have re-used your poppet when they overhauled them.

For reference, here is a breakdown:

 

Am i understanding this correctly when you sent injectors to rosewood there was a problem with #7 already?? do you know what the issue was on the, I am guessing, OEM injectors with some 202K miles if i remember your sig?

 

I don't see how I can tap the armature plate, unless you mean tap on the solenoid? Maybe you mean I should remove the solenoid?

Thank you for the excellent diagram!


No, no report

 

Sorry, this info was in the other thread, I didn't think to put it here.

For about 4k miles (2 trips) a fine mist of oil was spraying out the exhaust onto our camper. I thought it was from oil leaks hitting the road, but retrospect....

Returning from the last part of that trip, it began losing much more oil. By the time we parked at home, it was a gallon low on oil. About 3 weeks later I went to move it after topping off with oil and it was doing the "blood spatter" of oil on the ground out of the tailpipe. I made it to my garage and it sat for an extended period.

After exploring several options and during a conversation with Jim about the injectors, it seemed most likely the injectors had failed internally somehow and was throwing oil through it. I did not know which injector failed, but Jim was going to tear them down and let me know what he found and my options for the rebuild.

I sent the injectors to Rosewood diesel for conversion of the stock splitshots to 160/80 with premium rebuild, as most everything important is replaced.

Instead of that call, I got a call that they were finished and the invoice amount and then they were sent to me.

After an extended delay of installing the injectors (kept in original pkg from Rosewood), we installed them and I haven't been able to get ICP high enough to operate the injectors since.

I made up a tool to do a Cody test that pressurizes the head and helps isolate leaking injectors or orings using compressed air. Found injector #7 (it was also original #7 as I marked them with a paint pen before sending) was passing air from the HPO rail directly through the injector and out the spout. Batteries were disconnected during this test, so rules out electrical short.

Now we are here and I'm trying to learn what are some causes of this type of failure, etc.

I am planning to call Jim tomorrow to discuss my options on these injectors.

FYI. The delays over a 4 month period were 100% due to my health issues, including hospital stays. Not any fault of Jim's.

I have my first tune ready from Tony Wildman, but not loaded yet. Monitoring using Torque Pro and AutoEnginuity.

But now I am on this full bore and need to get this fixed up and running

Make sense?

 

yes it does now.. sorry to hear of health issues sounds like you are better..

how many miles on injectors when you sent them in??

 

Yes, MUCH better, now, thank you

The injectors were 202k. My truck hasn't run since the day I put it in the garage.

I did replace the injector cup in #2 before installing these reman injectors, but that isn't related to this issue. It was split but no coolant loss or other issues yet. Pre-emptive

 

Correct, you would need to remove the solenoid to do so - if they weren't marked with a paint pen for screw orientation during rebuild this is a possible test you can conduct, but it may pay to wait until after talking to Jim to do so.

The only thing I can think of that would have caused it in my case was either the spring failing, a fragment of metal from the machining process sticking on the lower poppet seat, or a possible seal seizing on the top of the poppet valve itself as the truck ran fine for about a week prior.

Yours may be a tad different of a situation rendering the poppet sticking due to the fact yours haven't ran at all since. It is possible that upon re-install the poppet valve's seats had worn a specific way and the poppet didn't get put back in the same orientation, rendering small orifices that allow just enough oil past for the injector not to function correctly - given the poppet doesn't rotate while it wears (similar to intake/exhaust valves do), but without tearing it down there isn't really any way to tell.

On the other hand, since the same injector seems to have the same issue after a rebuild, I would look to a different issue causing it - perhaps something in the body or the oil relief plate has caused one of them to swell, grasping the poppet and holding it mayhaps? That is kind of a shot in the dark from me currently without being able to put my hands on it.

 

This unfortunate tale is a lesson for us all--there are rebuild facilities that test their rebuilt injectors for proper operation. Not all rebuilt injectors are tested. Also the cleanliness of the rebuild shop is of utmost importance. An enclosed room with proper air filtration and cleanliness will result in a better job. Not all shops provide this quality or attention to detail.

 

Rosewood has a reputation for thoroughness and dependable injectors. As John mentioned, this is one of those "spit happens" things.

Great catch with the Cody test. I would just wait for feedback from Rosewood. Ryan at Full Force Diesel sent me a fresh injector when I sent him a video of a dud injector, then I just sent back the bad unit after the swap - but I bought new.

When I was going through the revolving door of hammering my injectors with loose bolt symptoms as quick as I installed them, I ended up getting a 9th injector. This one put a shop vac on the end of the Buck$Zooka, because I didn't have a core for trade at the time. Not that I recommend buying a 9th, but this gives me a spare of my own in the event of future problems - because of the custom nature of the sticks.

 

Thanks, Rich. If there is a silver lining, it's that due to being ill this summer, we parked the Excursion and a relative gave us their car when he passed away. So our Ex isn't our exclusive vehicle.

Having mechanical problems is bad enough. Being stranded would have been worse

Not sure if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but our Ex died IN OUR DRIVEWAY after 2900 mile vacation towing the camper and lots of people. She did good. We are truly blessed!

I've left a message for Jim a few mins ago. I had a few things to handle this am first.

 

Update: Wow, that was a quick return call

Well, it sounds like my failure isn't so rare after all, judging by Jim's explanation and immediate understanding

He seems to believe it is nothing more than some debris that got into it during the course of assembly (he offered it is possible on his side, too) of the engine, install of the injectors, etc.

Jim told me to remove the solenoid and plate and use a flat screwdriver to work the armature plate up and down while turning over the engine to push oil through it to flush out whatever might be in there. When I told him I have the air pressure setup, he said I could try it, but it *might* need many hundreds of psi and oil to flush it out.

So I'll try with the air first, as the testing then should be quite obvious when it reseats.

100% absolutely can pull it and send it to him. He will make sure it is cleaned out and if there is something else wrong, he'll be on it.

100% certain that he flow tested it under pressure as a set.

Here's what I liked most about the coversation: No CYA, no blaming, no attempts to shirk any responsibilities, only helpful info and suggestion, with a 100% backup option to send it to him.

"You can pull it out and send it to us, but if you want to try this, it should only take a few minutes to clear out any debris"

Pretty simple approach. I appreciate that kind of business man, that is how I treat people, too- solve the problem, period.

I have a Drs appt today, so a "no grease morning" but maybe I can sneak it in before company comes tonight.

Thanks, IDI-Charlie! Your advice is right on the money. I'll use the screwdriver to work it up and down while flushing it with air and oil if that doesn't work.

Jim said they mark the armatures when they disassemble, so it should be easy to ensure the proper orientation before putting the solenoid back on.

If it is truly this simple to correct, this will be a good example of why we share our experiences- the next guy "stuck" with this problem will automatically grab his tools and solve it in a few mins

Thank you for all the suggestions and support. I'll be sure to post up the results.

Oh yeah- I am still quite pleased I chose to go with Jim at Rosewood Diesel for the reman