Waxy

 

I agree Big_daddy_Velvet. We fund them and they only try to do what helps them. They want the US to lend them the money to renovate the UN building. I dont remember what percentage we pay for in the UN but it is well over 50%. Why did we ever give France a permanant power in the first place. They have never won a war(except the American revolution if that counts) and have little to give anyone but a headache. The US should leave and let them have their game they like to play. Thats all it is, a place to play like you are somebody. latr

 

Geez, I thought this one would really get the fur flying.

I guess the truth is hard to argue.

Waxy

 

The UN is like the US legal system. It aint great but its all we got.
Even with the French.

 

Powell has put a lot of miles on presenting the 'new' US proposal on Iraq to UN member nations. I sure don't envy him that task. He basically has to meet with diplomats at cabinet policy levels, the very ones we recently told to take a flying leap because they didn't know what they were talking about, request aid in the form of troops and money, and state that in no way will we give up military or civilian control of Iraq.

Members of smaller, economically disadvantaged UN member countries are easy. Direct aid and/or trade loan guarantees always bring a few troops at our expense.

The other, more prominant members have to be shrugging their heads at our dilemma. In political reality, shouldering the entire financial burden of Iraq, ongoing deaths of our troops and a guerilla war in a country we 'liberated' will make for tough sledding in an election year already clouded by domestic financial problems and serious job loss numbers.

We're the strongest, richest country on the planet and mortgaging the future of our youth from the invasion and occupation of a tiny country. I'd say the UN is now a necessity, at least in the eyes of our administration.

 

I don't think anyone understood what you were trying to say. Is that why you post, to "get the fur flying?"

 

Vernacular for starting a disagreement, fight, etc.

 

That's a euphamism for getting a conversation or a debate started. I'm sorry you didn't understand it, and yes, that is occassionally why I post. That is the idea behind the Pig Pen, is it not?

The point of my original post is that the US is now going to all the counties that it gave the bird to when it went into Iraq and asking to be bailed out of their mess. A mess they were warned was waiting for them, and that they chose to wade into, ALONE.

Pretty ironic that the US is now begging the UN - France, Russia, Canada, etc... to help them out after they blatantly thumbed their nose at it. While part of me would like to see the UN thumb their nose back, you made your bed, now lie in it, I realize that UN help is needed if the Iraq sitauation is going to progess.

I heard a lot of talk in this thread about the "might" of the US and how it doesn't need the UN or help from anyone else. If that's the case, why the current appeal to the UN? Why not go it alone?

Waxy

 

The US is simply giving the other countries another chance to do what is right. We did the dirty work that had to be done when everyone else was afraid of dirt. The least UN could do is help out financially.

 

Do what is right? Cleaning up our mess is another thought.

 

Oh don't be so meladramatic Waxy. I'm sure we're not begging anyone for anything. We also didn't wade in "alone." You are usually pretty acurate with your posts but this one just seems to be intended to anger Americans (get the fur flying). Is it that bad being from the illigetimate 51'st state

 

I think the reason we are telling the UN to help us now is that these other countries are slobbering all over themselves trying to get in on the profit potential of rebuilding Iraq, but they don't want to help us stabilize it.
"You want summa th' duckets Chuck? Grab yo' mop an' yo' bucket sucka, an' start cleanin' house!"-Colin Powell

I hate to bring up old stuff, but who went in and "cleaned up the mess" in France and Germany after WWII? It sure wasn't the French; they had nothing to work with, and Germany was blown to smithereens. Where would they be today if America had told them to "clean up their own mess" after we finished off Hitler? They would be reading their R's backwards, saluting a hammer and sickle, driving puny underpowered cars amidst hollow, ruined remnants of their storied histories, and standing in bread lines.
I realize that's an easy rationalization, but let's be realistic. By taking out Hussein and opening up a country rich in petroleum, we have given them an opportunity to capitalize, which they are eager to do. But America has paid the price for this opportunity, and they need to throw their hats in the ring if they want a piece of the pie.
The member nations of the U.N. are trying to capitalize without contribution, and that exposes them, and the organization, as a fraud.
BDV

 

Even with full production we MIGHT get our costs back in 7-10 years. Doesn't sound like a prime investment to me.

 

Melodramatic? Please. Facts are facts. No one likes to have their "mistakes" lorded over them.

Are you really sure? What do you call it when Powell goes from country to country asking for financial and military aid?

Alone, no, there were the Brits and the Aussies, both reeling from the expense and political situation as well, and a few "other" countries. Against UN wishes, yes. You went in without the consent of all the countries you are now approaching for aid in the situation.

The post was terribly accurate Mike, and if you can't see that, then your blinded to the situation.

It is UNARGUABLE that the US is now going back to the UN and asking for forgiveness and financial/military aid in Iraq.

BDV, your assertion is completely unfounded. These other countries currently want no part of Iraq, rebuilding or otherwise, they know very well that the situation will be a quagmire for the next 10 years or more, and that there is no real profit to made. Oil reserves a huge red flag, if it even APPEARS that outside nations, especially the US, are profiting from Iraqi oil, it'll spark MAJOR unrest in the region.

AegisSailor, that's an interesting spin on it. The benevolent US.

Waxy

 

Facts are facts?? You have been behind closed doors and know what exactly is going on between Colin Powell and the people he meets with? Quit dreaming. I never said that we weren't asking for help but I seriously doubt we're begging anyone for anything. Also we were not alone. That was the only point I was making. So no your post was not "terribly accurate." It was a combination of speculation about what Colin powell does behind closed doors and a blatant false statement about us being "alone." Re-read it. You made those statements as facts and they are not.