Howdy folks

For a couple of weeks now I thought I had a bad battery or slow draw as sometimes the Bronco wouldn't start without a jump. Yesterday it refused to start even with a jump. Today same story, no start even with a jump.

I'm attaching (hopefully) a video so you can hear what's going on because I'm not sure how to describe it.

Starter was replaced a month ago. Battery replaced today (was going to do it soon anyways).

Fuel pump primes when key is first turned to "ON"

KOEO codes: 10 114 111 ... that's after putting in the new battery.
KOER codes: don't exist since I can't get it to start.

I'm at the point where I might not be able to justify putting more money into this one (the rear gears were replaced just over a month ago.) So I'm hoping it is something easy

 

Scrupulously follow the crank no start decision tree here:

Part 1 -Ford 4.9L, 5.0L, 5.8L Index of Articles

When I followed it, it told me that I had a bad stator (PIP output) from the distributor. I bought a new distributor (steel not cast gear) and then modded it slightly with some parts I took off my old distributor and everything is running fine.

Follow the decision tree. Don't take short cuts. But it is about time for your stator to fail. No PIP output. No spark. That's why my symptom was called "Crank No Start."

This might be interesting reading for you:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...51-eec-iv.html

But follow the decision tree.

 

Thanks for the info Tim! I will be going through that decision tree now that I have a few days off

 

Ok went through the assumption of no spark. Everything checked good ... ish. The spark tester I purchased was a very cheaply made and poorly designed one. But it indicated that all cylinders had spark

So I moved on to the fuel system again. This time I had a pair of hands to crank it while I crawled in, under, around, and all over the chassis and engine bay.

I slightly squeezed the fuel line before the filter and when the engine was cranked I could feel the fuel moving through the line. I slightly squeezed the fuel line after the filter and could not feel any fuel when cranking.

RNR'd fuel filter, Bronco starts normally This is slightly odd because I had pulled the filter thinking that I put it in backwards when I replaced it the day of this thread. I didn't have it in backwards, but probably had a blockage in the old filter and introduced a lot of air in the line swapping it out.

TLDR: bad fuel filter and air in fuel line

 

Congratulations!

BTW, our furnace hasn't been working. But it worked fine for a while after we replaced our propane tank. Then later it stopped. I replaced the ignitor and the thermocouple and it still didn't work.

A couple of weeks later it dawned on me to disconnect the pipe to the furnace and let it purge until the "gas" smelled "propaney" enough. Then reconnected the pipe, and left the garage door open for 45 minutes.

Furnace has been working fine ever since.

It seems to be the simple stuff, after we've tried all the complicated stuff...

 

Thanks! However it's a bit premature

This morning it didn't want to start, took 6 or 7 cranks before it started. I took this opportunity to drive it around to warm up the engine for a KOER test.

KOEO: 111 10
172 (HEGO lean) *This was expected as I've had this issue for a year or so. RNR'd MAF sensor and housing twice now. Haven't gotten around to the O2 sensors yet.
211 (PIP circuit fault)

KOER:
4 *WTF?*
172
536 Brake On/Off not pressed (didn't do the BOO test during KEOR)
632 Overdrive switch something or another (didn't push the button during KEOR)

So the first one threw me for a loop. I shut down, removed batteries from tester, fired up and ran it again.

KOER #2
8
172
536
632

During the test drive to warm it up it performed well. It did hesitate/stumble once in the driveway about 30 seconds after it started.

Not sure where to go from here. I'm thinking about RNRing the distributor due to the PIP circuit failure code, but that's not something I've done before

 

211 PIP circuit fault?

Sound like you have an intermittent failure of the stator in your distributor (i.e., PIP sends the 10 degrees before TDC signal to the ICM to pass it along to the ECM/PCM to modify for timing advance adjustment and then sent to the coil. My experience was that the PIP signal was strong enough to get to the ICM (no timing advance) but not strong enough to be passed from the ICM to the ECM/PCM. But taking the SPOUT jumper out takes the ECM/PCM out of the circuit, so the ICM could tell the coil to fire from the little weak PIP signal the ICM was getting from the distributor stator.

I drove my '95 Bronco 5.8L for a year with an intermittent crank no start symptom. Usually I could get it started by removing the SPOUT jumper. It finally failed and wouldn't spark even with the SPOUT jumper out.

The stator in the distributor is really nothing more than a lawnmower magneto. It doesn't just completely fail. It gets weaker, until it finally fails.

Complete failure is your "diagnosis friend." So, do the crank no start decision tree WHEN the failure is occurring -- when it won't start, do the crank no start decision tree again. You will get it figured out one way or another.

You might as well order the Radio Shack test light from ebay as required by the decision tree.

BTW, when I used the test light, my vehicle started just like the decision tree said it might. I attribute that to having the weak PIP signal "boosted' by the test light being hooked up to the battery as the decision tree recommends.

TALK TO ME ABOUT REBUILDING OR REPLACING YOUR DISTRIBUTOR BEFORE YOU DO IT. If you want to rebuild, you must do it from the BOTTOM by removing the gear, then the collar, then pulling the shaft out. YOU CANNOT ACCESS THE STATOR FROM THE OF TOP OF THE DISTRIBUTOR !!! There are some really boneheaded Youtube videos out there. Ignore them. Also look at the schematic in my thread to determine if there is yellow paint on your gear. If it is yellow it is a steal gear. You cannot put a cast iron geared distributor into your cam shaft without ruining the cam shaft.

I also never did this before this year. I am not a mechanic or an electrician and am not in the auto industry. But it is doable even by some bonehead like me, if you take your time and know what to do. Let me know if the decision tree says you need to rebuild or replace your distributor and I will post up a more detailed build thread with pictures.

 

I think it'd be easier to replace. Not sure if this is the correct Motorcraft part (DA-2065) or if I should go with MSD instead. Should I also replace the coil at the same time?

Depending on how involved this is, I'll have to do the plugs and wires at a later date. Hmmm this would be a great time to do the 6 liter upgrade right? I mean I'll have the distributor out, will have to at least check the timing, and I have new motorcraft wires and autolite plugs....

After unplugging the jumper the truck starts more reliably now. However in the morning it shakes like a **** until it warms up

 

Put the spout jumper back in until you get a no start then run the decision tree to see what is actually your problem. Don't assume that it is the distributor. It could still be your ICM, PCM or coil.

As far as replacing the distributor goes, yes it is much much easier to replace it than rebuild it. But you must set your engine on top dead center on the compression stroke on cylinder no. 1, (check to see that rotor is facing toward spark plug wire no. 1, (take pictures) then remove the distributor then look for the touch of paint on your distributor's gear and order a replacement distributor of the same variety (see color chart attached below).

But do the decision tree when you have a no start to verify that it is your distributor. Don't just throw parts.

P.S. what is 6 liter upgrade?

 

I will follow the rest of the tree sooner or later, depending on how long it takes to get that test probe kit thingy.

The 6 liter upgrade from my understanding consists of increasing the gap on the plugs, upgrading the coil, cap, rotor, and plug wires (if needed), and bumping the timing to 13 to 14 degrees.

But as tired as this motor is (268K miles), I probably won't be doing that.

 

Using the test light is the very last step in the decision tree. If you are ready to do it, I will mail you the one I made with a stamped envelope with my return address on it. But you need a true crank no start condition to have valid results.

Thanks for explaining the 6 liter upgrade. A parts employee at a local Ford dealership said he did something like that to his 96 Bronco.

BTW, I once had cross arcing between the old oem spark plug wires. I replaced with the 9mm Ford Racing spark plug wires and they are great! Take a look at post # 25 here:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...limbing-2.html

 

Update: Had to replace the re-manufactured starter that I installed in September because it just up and died. No biggie.

Have only encountered the crank no start twice lately, both times it was really cold in the mornings. I had to get to work so I pulled the spout jumper to start it up. Let it warm up, turn it off, replace spout jumper, start Bronco

New problem just discovered tonight leaving work, I have a coolant leak. Can't be that big, but it's another small ****ty problem that could potentially be big if untreated.

So, probably just going to purchase a newer vehicle and leave the Bronco alone for quite some time. It's not worth much as a trade in, I can't in good conscious sell it, and I've put too much time and money during the last few months to junk it.

I briefly considered parting it out, but don't want the hassle and I do still want to drive it one of these days without having to worry about it stranding me somewhere .... again

 

It's an old vehicle, so we have multiple vehicles for that reason. But it can be made reliable with enough time, a little money, and commitment.

Sure sounds like symptoms of a weak PIP signal from the stator in the distributor to me.

Two things you will be replacing if you haven't already, your radiator and your heater core.

I installed an oem heater core in both my 1993 and in my 1995.

I installed this awesome all aluminum radiator in my 1995. Cannot recommend it highly enough!

 

Yea I haven't done the rad or heater core yet. Stupid truck didn't leak last night, as soon as I parked I stuck a pan under it where it was leaking before. This morning the pan was dry and the radiator was full.

I ran the heater all the way home since I ran it that morning I thought it might be a heater hose leak. It could be the thermostat housing or the seal on the water pump, both have been removed in the last year or so.

I'm leaning more towards the seal on the water pump, but until it leaks again I can't be sure