What is equally interesting to me is that their own literature indicates that they are using an F600 regulator, which is the very same regulator as what is used in the original Motorcraft and equivalent rebuilt/replacement small and large case 6G alternators.

In fact, that is one of the key reasons why I selected the L-N over some of the high amp aftermarket options available... the commonality of F600 style voltage regulators between the 6G and the AVI160T L-N, because I am running dual alternators, and still have a 6G as the secondary alternator.

I wanted both voltage regulators, in parallel, to be as close to the same as possible, and find it both ironic and somewhat concerning that so many folks (reportedly a dozen, according to FICMRepair's post) have come forward to report issues with oscillation as a result of exceeding the voltage regulation set point specified for the F600 regulator.

PS... by "F600", I am not referring to the legacy Ford medium duty chassis cab from decades gone by. I am instead referring to the common trade number that the alternator rebuilding industry and parts suppliers use to describe and distinguish various models of regulators according to their specification, fitment, and type, regardless of manufacturer.

 

Y2K,

Are you aware of any aftermarket (reliable in quality) regulators that might be able to be installed to see if they are more “in spec” to the voltage?

To me, L-N dropped the ball here. Not sure if due to the takeover of the company, but it’s not up to the rep that I knew.

 

What's even more interesting to us is that it is ONLY a dozen. We're talking umpteen pallets of products sold.

We've even reached out to numerous customers asking if they've had any issues with oscillation and have been told that they haven't.

It makes me wonder if they at some point changed regulators.

 

Ed,
I just sent you an email. I purchased an L-N alt. from you in Jan. or Feb. 2016. I've always had the oscillation.

David

 

Yup, saw your message and responded. So strange, this mystery. Given the timeline of your purchase, perhaps it is something that has been going on since Day One then.

I haven't yet heard anything from LN, but we'll see.

We sell more of this alternator than anyone in the nation by a huge margin. Even though the alternators are 'working', my hope is that this helps them to take this seriously. Time will tell!

 

Oops, my bad! I purchased it Jan. of this year. Dang getting old can be a PITA.

David

 

The entire alternator / rectifier / regulator architecture of the Leece Neville alternators that established the stellar reputation in the police / fire / ambulance / fleet communities that we associated with the high quality Leece Neville brand name 30 years ago is different than the compact pancake style alternator that Leece Neville designed for the LCF and Ford applications that drop fit into our trucks.


It is my understanding that Leece Neville still produces the robust types of alternators upon which their enviable reputation was earned... it's just that those type of alternators don't fit in our engine bays, that are far more crowded than they were in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. And they require external regulation, and the associated know how to convert our wiring to accommodate them, even if the packaging constraints were surmounted.


The dual rectifier bridge design is not unlike the mighty Mitsubishi 215 amp alternator that can sort of drop fit into our application, but that at 35 lbs, is a very large mass on the front accessory drive bracket, and one had better remove the hood insulation before the externally mounted fan on the Mitsu does it, and not so neatly.


At the end of the day, the L-N black pancake alternator we all have is a great fit... that with a 160 mm diameter stator maximizes the available space to fit a traditionally wound alternator within Ford's three hole T mount bracket design. The only way to obtain more energy density in the same amount of space is to go with a Denso segmented conductor alternator, which is what Ford eventually moved on to by the time the 6.4L was introduced.


The segmented conductor design is what DCPower and Mechman use in their high end, high output alternators, preferring to call them "hairpin" or "flat wire" alternators, as if they are different from an OEM offering, when in fact they are simply supplier purchased Denso parts made possible to retrofit into our applications only because Ford chose to go with segmented conductor alternators in T mount format about 5 or 6 years after Denso introduced the technology to market in 2000. So by 2007, there were Ford T mount drive end and slip ring end frames available that held Denso 96 segment conductors, which spawned a renaissance in "high output" aftermarket alternators becoming available.


At the same time, L-N was solving the 6G problem a different way, putting more electrical generating mass of traditional design, using the exact same regulator as was previously fitted with the 6G.


Well, one of the exact same regulators. There are actually several internally different regulators that look exactly the same externally, and fit the exact same way, but differ in how they are controlled or not controlled by the PCM, as well as differ in how much control they exert over the rate of power generation (ie Soft Start, non Soft Start, etc). They look so much alike, the industry color coded them so that alternator rebuilders wouldn't put the wrong regulator in an alternator rebuild destined for a vehicle whose alternator control wiring wouldn't support it.


Hence we have F600 - F60X series regulators distinguished by their body and cover colors, ie, gray with gray cover (F600), gray with gray cover (F600HD), white with white cover (F602), white with orange cover (F603), gray with green cover (F605), black (F606).


And here is where we broach the topic of a thread we participated in last year, where upon disassembly one of us discovered that the F600 regulator found in the L-N AVi160T was black/black. And Jack, at this point I should intervene as an aside to say that the bulk of this message I know you already know, but since this is a public thread on a topic of keen interest to anyone wondering about which alternator to get, if they will encounter voltage oscillation issues, or how to resolve voltage oscillation issues with a GPCM, and we are generally in agreement that the root cause boils down to the internal voltage regulator, it seemed some scope on the topic would be useful here, to inspire other readers who find this thread in a search to leverage any new to them information gleaned here as keywords for their own subsequent research.


Getting back to the story, we all puzzled over why the regulator in the L-N was color coded black with black cover, when that code indicates the full usage of all three wires in the harness connector, including the middle Field Rate terminal, where the PCM monitors the duty cycle of the alternator. Well, um, the PCMs in our 6.0L and 7.3L engines aren't that smart. The middle terminal on the gray with gray cover voltage regulators that were fitted in the OEM alternators of our trucks are called "dummy" terminals for a reason. Our alternators are only controlled by the two outside wires... the ignition/lamp circuit, and the voltage sense/field source circuit. The middle terminal is unused, and the F600 and F600HP voltage regulators, both of which are gray/gray, are designed accordingly.


That all being said, there is no way that L-N AVi160T could persist in production for 8 years and 6 subtle revisions using the wrong regulator, especially since the AVi160T is a Ford OEM part in the LCF, enduring all the vetting and continual review and process controls that can be expected in any supplier to manufacturer relationship. So we have to assume that DESPITE the internal regulator inside the L-N being the wrong color, it has to be the right part as far as not relying on a field report link to the PCM.


If I were to experiment with changing the voltage regulator in the L-N alternator we are discussing, I'd probably first try an F600HD, a heavier duty version of the F600, without soft start, without an active middle circuit in the control terminal, having only an I and an A circuit in the plug, and with a gray body and cover.


As to where I would obtain that regulator, in terms of what supplier... that is hard to say. The largest manufacturer in the world of aftermarket alternator parts is WAI Global, who over the last decade has subsumed the rebuilder industry with cheaply made parts from China. Even if I were to try to find a source other than WAI, it more likely would be that the part would still be made by WAI, only private labeled into another brand, and that relationship would purposely be obscured from my view as a purchaser, likely enforced by the iron clad NDA's between the actual manufacturer and the remarketer.


So that is a long way to say I don't really know, but still provide enough keywords for others to pick up the torch from here and carry on the search for whatever else there is to discover.


As for me, I am going to replace my secondary alternator with a Denso designed segmented conductor, due to the fact that I can get from 10 to 50 more amps energy producing density in a Denso stator that is 20mm smaller in diameter, with no change in drive pulley diameter. I don't have to worry about too much amperage killing the glow plugs with the secondary alternator, since the PCM keeps the secondary alternator offline during glow plug operation. As I get less able to lift things into and out of the truck, I expect to use a power liftgate more and more, which will take a toll on the batteries if additional batteries are not added, along with a robust recharging system to maintain them at an optimal state of charge during the relatively short distances I operate the truck within.

 

43rd week of 2013, I presume. Not new production.

 

Thanks Y2K.

Your about the only person I know who could review this subject with the details you interjected. Thank you.

I don’t understand how this was not an issue with the LCF, but I don’t know that vehicle at all.

 

If your claim (of selling more AVI160T alternators than anyone else in the nation) is even only a half true exaggeration, then you still stand most to gain from having a resolute answer from the folks at Prestolite regarding the issue presented in this thread.

And Prestolite stands second most to gain by answering you, as you certainly have the power to direct your customers to other choices, and indeed already have, based on other posts.

Therefore, since it has been about a week and a half since your post above, without any holidays inbetween, I'm quite curious what the follow up has been on the part of L-N?

 

Our sales claim is based off of statements provided by our regional LN rep. We stand by them.

We confirmed that the carrier had a delay in getting the alternator delivered to LN, but that it showed up yesterday. We sent a note into them earlier today to see what they were able to determine, but they have not yet responded.

Hang in there....

 

I've been speaking with XDP on this here recently. Spoke with them again today actually (that is where I bought my L-N from). There is talk of doing a three way call with them and L-N to go over the fine details. I wont go into the particulars or relate what has been said quite yet, would like to see the outcome first.

I will say though that this particular thread has been noticed..... and the more support and information we can contribute can only help to show this is not just a random one off problem. Or that we are all just a "drop int the bucket"

 

They can send me a "experimental" model if they want. I'll put it through it's paces.

 

I hope you get more traction then I did. I've got more vids showing the fluctuations, but ya know, it must be my truck

 

And my truck...

I took this Saturday. Temp was 27F. Truck sat about 24 hours.

I must have left the wipers on...