Since I am building my '49 F4 as a driver and my shop truck I decided to install some late model seats for comfort. I bought a pair of front seats from a '06 Explorer that are really nice. I noticed today that there is a label on the seat belt retractor that says "to be used only with airbags". Do the newer shoulder belts work differently when used with airbags? Do I need to find different belts or would these be safe to use without airbags?
Thank you,
Mark

 

Are the seat belts integral to the seat structurally?

I found these while searching for an answer:
What is the difference between an ELR and an ALR? - GWR Safety Systems - Seat belt Manufacturer
How Seat Belts Work?All About Seat Belts?TAKATA all around you?TAKATA

I think this is why your retractor has the note:

 

If you are mounting them to your floor modify/augment/strengthen you mounting points. I installed shoulder belts and welded a 1/4 plate large enough to engage the back of the cab for the mounting points between the two bucket seats. I also formed a piece of 1/8" steel to fit the corner of my cab from the door jamb to the back window with welded mounts.

Sorry, picture got turned 90 degrees!

 

I think Ross gets points for nailing it. Whatever you use is going to be better than no seat belt at all.

I have heard of people being injured by the air bags as well as the seat belts, in accidents.

I installed three point belts in my truck, and use them daily. I won't be installing air bags.

 

It is all a matter if degrees. Over the years MVSS standards have changed as testing became more and more dramatic. Originally seat belts were designed to protect against the common frontal impact to prevent people from getting thrown through the windshield or from the car. Then testing changed to include rollover protection. Then as front airbags came in they were designed to complement each other. Then side impacts and side airbags came in.

Design-wise originally there were only lap belts. Then shoulder belts came in but you had to adjust them yourself. Most people didn't do it right so pre-tensioners were added to the lap and shoulder belts which kept the belts against the body and ready for action. Now, as Ross's documents show, they have moved to allowing the tensioned to give slightly on impact thereby absorbing some of the shock.

Designing seat belt systems is very intense and requires lots of simulated and real world testing. And every vehicle model is different. So when we look at the aftermarket-supplied seat belts they basically have one design that fits all. There is no way they can meet the current OEM crash requirements on every vehicle. The best that you can hope for is that they will keep you from going through the windshield and in the vehicle. Belts with pre-tensioners are best.

I'm not sure about the 2006 Explorer seats that you have but if the belts are built into the seat they would have pre-tensioners and probably post impact cushioning. So IMHO I would think that they would be better than what you can buy from the aftermarket. Of course you won't know for sure unless you do some very expensive crash testing.

Just make sure that your rear seat mounts are firmly anchored as they would have a lot of stress put on them in a crash. Several layers of large washers or a heavy plates would be in order.

 

Ross, Thank you for the links. If I am understanding them correctly, the belts won't work properly without all the electrical connections and airbags. The belt and seat base rail system on these seats are made by Takata. I'm posting some photos in my next post to show what I have.
Also thanks to topmoo, tip49 and Pete for your replies and helpful info.
Thanks again,
Mark

 

The seats setting in the cab blocked up to proper height. The drivers seat is six way power and the passenger is manual. I would have preferred manual for both.


The seat belt latch has a cable that goes into the tube with a spring to allow belts to give.


Note all the wiring and sensors.


When I remove the Takata base rails the bottom of the seat adjuster rail is flat, so it would be easy to build a seat base to fit.

 

Very nice seats! I think you should be able to defeat the cable system if you want to, or leave it. It sounds like the amount of "give" may not be substantial. Don't know how you can quantify it.

 

Some of those sensor are to identify if there is an occupant in the seat. Turns off the airbags if nobody present or sets off warning lights and buzzers if seat belts not buckled. The Takata box would be connected to another body computer. If that is not present the question is will the seat belts lock up properly. The old style belts had a pendulum weight that locked the belt up on deceleration. I don't think these new systems have that rather they rely on signals from electronic decel sensors scattered around the car that feed the body computer that then feed the Takata box.

 

Thanks Guys! I would probably leave the cable system on the latch end, just remove the wiring. I guess my main concern, after reading the Takata link Ross posted, is whether the retractor will work properly. Will it still lock in the event of an accident? It has a couple of wires going to it, are they for a motor in the retractor for pulling in the belt in an accident? It looks like I can remove the belts and replace them if necessary with a shoulder harness that isn't so high tech.
Thanks again,
Mark

 

Since it's Takata, it probably doesn't work anyway....

Seriously, since the upper anchor is not part of the seat, I'd just trash the whole assembly and get a 3-point belt from Julian's.

 

I agree. Too many unknowns?

 

we have that system on lots of more modern euro cars in UK it will work fine as is, the unit 'fires' in the event of an accident determined by the on board airbag computer, all it essentially does it retract the buckle to tension the belt to hold you in your seat.


I've seen lots and lots of crashed modern cars and it's really hit or miss if these things deploy or not but to sum it up, belts will work normally with out electrical connections.

 

Since I still have the stock seat, I bought new belts at Advance Auto. They come with all teh hardware needed to mount them to the floor including oversized washers for additional strength. They went in without any trouble and look great.

Later!
Mr. Ed

 

Thank you all for the replies, and thank you Ross for the tip on Juliano's street rod parts. I looked at their web site and I will probably order their belts. I will have more money in the belts than I have in the seats, but I agree with what you all posted. There are just too many unknowns with these belts. Hopefully I never have an accident, but I don't want to wait till then to find out whether or not the belts will work.
Thanks again,
Mark