Reviving an old 300
#16
gotta pull the cover to replace the front seal....plus it'd be a shame to go thru with all the updating, cleaning, and what not, only find another leak on the front....when it could have been taken care of in conjunction with the oil pan. I think we can all agree that doing the job right the first time, is well worth going the proverbial extra mile. Definitely saves a fella some headaches later on.
we all know that ALL gaskets will eventually leak...but with some effort and preventative maintenance, they can be avoided.
we all know that ALL gaskets will eventually leak...but with some effort and preventative maintenance, they can be avoided.
Originally Posted by applebaggins
The guy that's doing some body work on the truck has to start it and drive it from his yard to his shop, so (all fear about that process aside) if there's a real issue with the engine, it might show up during that move.
I bought a complete gasket kit online and will be replacing damn near all the gaskets, I think. Part of this is preventive maintenance, but it's also meant to be a learning experience in how everything connects. I've been reading the service manual for some time and going through these forums, the fordsix forums, etc..
Will keep you posted!
I bought a complete gasket kit online and will be replacing damn near all the gaskets, I think. Part of this is preventive maintenance, but it's also meant to be a learning experience in how everything connects. I've been reading the service manual for some time and going through these forums, the fordsix forums, etc..
Will keep you posted!
Oh, if and when you seal up the front timing cover, you need to be sure it's centered or your seal will get chewed up in short order. There's a tool for it, but whenever I do one, I just put the cover in place with a few very loose bolts. Then press the harmonic balancer back on to center the cover, tighten down a few bolts to keep it from moving, and pull the balancer again. Then, I can take my time and torque the cover properly.
#17
Also, is there a specific order for replacing the following gaskets?
- Cylinder head
- Manifold
- Valve cover
- Push rod cover / /grommet
- Valve stem seal
- Water outlet
- Distributor
- Oil pan
- Oil pump
- Oil filter
- Timing cover
- Fuel pump
- Water pump
#18
What are you trying to accomplish on this engine? You can very easily get sucked into the whole snowball/slippery slope/ while I'm at it deal. Before you know it, the engine is out and you are doing a full rebuild. Things can get expensive/time consuming pretty quickly.
I would get the engine running good. Make sure it's got good oil pressure ( checked with a good gauge, not factory gauge if it even has one ) . And check the compression. Once it's running good, then deal with the oil leaks. Doesn't do any good to fix oil leaks if it doesn't have good oil pressure.
With it sitting for 8 years I would rebuild the carb and replace the fuel filter and the fuel pump. The diaphragm in the fuel pump can dry out and split. When this happens fuel can get in your crank case/oil.
If you are going to get into the gasket replacements there are a couple more parts to replace while you are at it. If you are pulling the water pump replace it. And if you are pulling the timing cover check your timing gears. If you have the fiber cam gear replace the timing gears. Make sure to get either a steel or aluminum cam gear. Do not put another fiber gear back on it. And if you are going to replace all the gaskets. It's really worth just pulling the engine so you can work on it outside the vehicle Because you really should replace the rear main seal while doing all the other gaskets. If you don't it will leak ( Murphy's law on that one ) . And to change it you either need to pull the engine or the transmission. And if you have the transmission out it's a good time to change the clutch set too. See this goes back to what I was saying in the first paragraph.
And for cleaning the engine make sure to put a plastic bag over the distributor, carb and any hole in the valve cover.
I would get the engine running good. Make sure it's got good oil pressure ( checked with a good gauge, not factory gauge if it even has one ) . And check the compression. Once it's running good, then deal with the oil leaks. Doesn't do any good to fix oil leaks if it doesn't have good oil pressure.
With it sitting for 8 years I would rebuild the carb and replace the fuel filter and the fuel pump. The diaphragm in the fuel pump can dry out and split. When this happens fuel can get in your crank case/oil.
If you are going to get into the gasket replacements there are a couple more parts to replace while you are at it. If you are pulling the water pump replace it. And if you are pulling the timing cover check your timing gears. If you have the fiber cam gear replace the timing gears. Make sure to get either a steel or aluminum cam gear. Do not put another fiber gear back on it. And if you are going to replace all the gaskets. It's really worth just pulling the engine so you can work on it outside the vehicle Because you really should replace the rear main seal while doing all the other gaskets. If you don't it will leak ( Murphy's law on that one ) . And to change it you either need to pull the engine or the transmission. And if you have the transmission out it's a good time to change the clutch set too. See this goes back to what I was saying in the first paragraph.
And for cleaning the engine make sure to put a plastic bag over the distributor, carb and any hole in the valve cover.
#19
What are you trying to accomplish on this engine? You can very easily get sucked into the whole snowball/slippery slope/ while I'm at it deal. Before you know it, the engine is out and you are doing a full rebuild. Things can get expensive/time consuming pretty quickly.
I would get the engine running good. Make sure it's got good oil pressure ( checked with a good gauge, not factory gauge if it even has one ) . And check the compression. Once it's running good, then deal with the oil leaks. Doesn't do any good to fix oil leaks if it doesn't have good oil pressure.
With it sitting for 8 years I would rebuild the carb and replace the fuel filter and the fuel pump. The diaphragm in the fuel pump can dry out and split. When this happens fuel can get in your crank case/oil.
If you are going to get into the gasket replacements there are a couple more parts to replace while you are at it. If you are pulling the water pump replace it. And if you are pulling the timing cover check your timing gears. If you have the fiber cam gear replace the timing gears. Make sure to get either a steel or aluminum cam gear. Do not put another fiber gear back on it. And if you are going to replace all the gaskets. It's really worth just pulling the engine so you can work on it outside the vehicle Because you really should replace the rear main seal while doing all the other gaskets. If you don't it will leak ( Murphy's law on that one ) . And to change it you either need to pull the engine or the transmission. And if you have the transmission out it's a good time to change the clutch set too. See this goes back to what I was saying in the first paragraph.
And for cleaning the engine make sure to put a plastic bag over the distributor, carb and any hole in the valve cover.
I would get the engine running good. Make sure it's got good oil pressure ( checked with a good gauge, not factory gauge if it even has one ) . And check the compression. Once it's running good, then deal with the oil leaks. Doesn't do any good to fix oil leaks if it doesn't have good oil pressure.
With it sitting for 8 years I would rebuild the carb and replace the fuel filter and the fuel pump. The diaphragm in the fuel pump can dry out and split. When this happens fuel can get in your crank case/oil.
If you are going to get into the gasket replacements there are a couple more parts to replace while you are at it. If you are pulling the water pump replace it. And if you are pulling the timing cover check your timing gears. If you have the fiber cam gear replace the timing gears. Make sure to get either a steel or aluminum cam gear. Do not put another fiber gear back on it. And if you are going to replace all the gaskets. It's really worth just pulling the engine so you can work on it outside the vehicle Because you really should replace the rear main seal while doing all the other gaskets. If you don't it will leak ( Murphy's law on that one ) . And to change it you either need to pull the engine or the transmission. And if you have the transmission out it's a good time to change the clutch set too. See this goes back to what I was saying in the first paragraph.
And for cleaning the engine make sure to put a plastic bag over the distributor, carb and any hole in the valve cover.
I'm a novice mechanic and this is my first project of this scope.
#20
Thanks for the reply! I've already pulled the engine and have it on a stand in the garage. My goal is just to service the engine as much as possible after it sat for so long. I have a gasket replacement kit from Fel Pro and have started that process. I'm not trying to replace anything that's already working. The engine ran (thought not well) before I pulled it.
I'm a novice mechanic and this is my first project of this scope.
I'm a novice mechanic and this is my first project of this scope.
Here's my way of thinking. I really hate doing things more then once. So if I'm tearing down a engine or part of the engine. I will replace parts that are either a pain to replace or can hurt the engine when they fail.
So here's the break down:
Timing gears: If it has the fiber cam gear they are known for the teeth stripping off them. This does two things. The engine dies when it happens and you are stuck getting towed home or to a shop. The second thing is all those bits of teeth get into the oil pan and plug up the oil pump pick up screen. So when this happens it means completely tearing down the front of the engine and pilling the oil pan and pick up tube. So if the engine is out and you are going to have the timing cover off it's a smart time to replace it with a timing set with a metal cam gear( either steel or aluminum ) . When your timing cover is off check the cam gear it may be a steel or aluminum gear already. If it does you are good to go on the timing set.
The fuel pump: If the diaphragm fails and you get gas in the oil it can damage the bearings.
The carb is going to need to be rebuilt if it sat for 8 years. If you don't it's most like going to run like crap and leak fuel.
The water pump isn't a huge deal as far as replacing it now or later. I would change it while it's removed just because I don't like doing things twice. But it will let you know when it needs to be replaced. It will start leaking.
Replacing the thermostat is a good idea.
Once the engine is back in the truck replacing the tune up parts is a good thing to do too. Spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor.
Picking up a good repair manual will help alot. Not only will it tell/show you how to do it. It will also give you the specs you'll need.
I like to tear the engine down as far as I'm going to go. Inspect and clean all the parts and then start replacing/re-installing them.
Pull the oil pan before the timing cover. And install the timing cover before the oil pan. Leave the the side lifter cover off until the push rods and rocker arms are re-installed.
#21
You are in luck that the 300 is a pretty simple engine to learn on.
Here's my way of thinking. I really hate doing things more then once. So if I'm tearing down a engine or part of the engine. I will replace parts that are either a pain to replace or can hurt the engine when they fail.
So here's the break down:
Timing gears: If it has the fiber cam gear they are known for the teeth stripping off them. This does two things. The engine dies when it happens and you are stuck getting towed home or to a shop. The second thing is all those bits of teeth get into the oil pan and plug up the oil pump pick up screen. So when this happens it means completely tearing down the front of the engine and pilling the oil pan and pick up tube. So if the engine is out and you are going to have the timing cover off it's a smart time to replace it with a timing set with a metal cam gear( either steel or aluminum ) . When your timing cover is off check the cam gear it may be a steel or aluminum gear already. If it does you are good to go on the timing set.
The fuel pump: If the diaphragm fails and you get gas in the oil it can damage the bearings.
The carb is going to need to be rebuilt if it sat for 8 years. If you don't it's most like going to run like crap and leak fuel.
The water pump isn't a huge deal as far as replacing it now or later. I would change it while it's removed just because I don't like doing things twice. But it will let you know when it needs to be replaced. It will start leaking.
Replacing the thermostat is a good idea.
Once the engine is back in the truck replacing the tune up parts is a good thing to do too. Spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor.
Picking up a good repair manual will help alot. Not only will it tell/show you how to do it. It will also give you the specs you'll need.
I like to tear the engine down as far as I'm going to go. Inspect and clean all the parts and then start replacing/re-installing them.
Pull the oil pan before the timing cover. And install the timing cover before the oil pan. Leave the the side lifter cover off until the push rods and rocker arms are re-installed.
Here's my way of thinking. I really hate doing things more then once. So if I'm tearing down a engine or part of the engine. I will replace parts that are either a pain to replace or can hurt the engine when they fail.
So here's the break down:
Timing gears: If it has the fiber cam gear they are known for the teeth stripping off them. This does two things. The engine dies when it happens and you are stuck getting towed home or to a shop. The second thing is all those bits of teeth get into the oil pan and plug up the oil pump pick up screen. So when this happens it means completely tearing down the front of the engine and pilling the oil pan and pick up tube. So if the engine is out and you are going to have the timing cover off it's a smart time to replace it with a timing set with a metal cam gear( either steel or aluminum ) . When your timing cover is off check the cam gear it may be a steel or aluminum gear already. If it does you are good to go on the timing set.
The fuel pump: If the diaphragm fails and you get gas in the oil it can damage the bearings.
The carb is going to need to be rebuilt if it sat for 8 years. If you don't it's most like going to run like crap and leak fuel.
The water pump isn't a huge deal as far as replacing it now or later. I would change it while it's removed just because I don't like doing things twice. But it will let you know when it needs to be replaced. It will start leaking.
Replacing the thermostat is a good idea.
Once the engine is back in the truck replacing the tune up parts is a good thing to do too. Spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap and rotor.
Picking up a good repair manual will help alot. Not only will it tell/show you how to do it. It will also give you the specs you'll need.
I like to tear the engine down as far as I'm going to go. Inspect and clean all the parts and then start replacing/re-installing them.
Pull the oil pan before the timing cover. And install the timing cover before the oil pan. Leave the the side lifter cover off until the push rods and rocker arms are re-installed.
Bought a new fuel pump. Easy peasy, one two threesie.
I pulled the carb earlier and it's sitting beside me with a rebuild kit I got online.
The thermostat looked ok, but it's a cheap enough part to replace if need be.
I bought the 1978 Ford service manual and that's been incredibly helpful for many things.
I had no plans for replacing the push rods or rocker arms. This originally was just about replacing some gaskets, but if there are known issues with some of the parts, now is the time to take care of it.
#22
#23
I can't see much for fiber grain - I'll get some more light on it soon - but it has Ford and D7TE 6250 on it, so I'm assuming it's the original.
#25
I'm pretty sure you should be ok with those timing gears. I can't remember for sure but I believe the fiber cam gears had two holes on the center part of the gear. Instead of the 4 holes that yours has. Your picture is just dark enough to make it hard to tell on the gear material. If you clean up the gear a little, the fiber gears almost have a wood type of appearance to them. Not one of Ford's best ideas but I believe they did it to make the engine quieter. Edit: if a magnet sticks to the cam gear then your good.
On your list you mentioned head gasket and valve seals. Both of which mean pulling the head to replace them. Well you could replace the valve seals with the head still installed but that requires using compressed air in the cylinder to keep the valve closed while you remove the valve spring/retainer and locks. You need to do one cylinder at a time when using this method. And the cylinder needs to be at TDC when you apply the air to it. Otherwise it will spin the engine over. It's just easier pulling the head, if you already have the engine out of the vehicle.Plus pulling the head lets you inspect everything ( including valves, seats, guides, etc. ) and clean it all up. If you pull the head you need to remove the push rods and at least loosen the rocker arms if you don't remove them completely.
No need to replace the rockers or push rods unless the push rods are bent or the ends are severely damaged/worn. Or there is severe wear on the rocker arms. You should be able to tell if the push rods are bent by rolling them with your hand on a flat surface. It's usually pretty easy to tell if they are bent. If you pull them keep them organized. I like to re-install the pushrods and rockers on the same cylinder/location if I'm not installing new ones. I like to take a box and mark the lay out of the cylinder head on it and punch some holes in it to stick the push rods in as I pull them. Make sure to clean the push rods and make sure the oil passage in the center of them is clear of sludge/debris. Otherwise your rockers/valvetrain won't get any oil up to it.
On your list you mentioned head gasket and valve seals. Both of which mean pulling the head to replace them. Well you could replace the valve seals with the head still installed but that requires using compressed air in the cylinder to keep the valve closed while you remove the valve spring/retainer and locks. You need to do one cylinder at a time when using this method. And the cylinder needs to be at TDC when you apply the air to it. Otherwise it will spin the engine over. It's just easier pulling the head, if you already have the engine out of the vehicle.Plus pulling the head lets you inspect everything ( including valves, seats, guides, etc. ) and clean it all up. If you pull the head you need to remove the push rods and at least loosen the rocker arms if you don't remove them completely.
No need to replace the rockers or push rods unless the push rods are bent or the ends are severely damaged/worn. Or there is severe wear on the rocker arms. You should be able to tell if the push rods are bent by rolling them with your hand on a flat surface. It's usually pretty easy to tell if they are bent. If you pull them keep them organized. I like to re-install the pushrods and rockers on the same cylinder/location if I'm not installing new ones. I like to take a box and mark the lay out of the cylinder head on it and punch some holes in it to stick the push rods in as I pull them. Make sure to clean the push rods and make sure the oil passage in the center of them is clear of sludge/debris. Otherwise your rockers/valvetrain won't get any oil up to it.
#26
Son of a gun, I did. I was going through the gasket list without giving much thought to it - you weren't kidding about the "while I'm at it" deal. I'll add that to the to-do list and again, thanks for the guidance.
The money I've saved on new steel gears might need to go to a new harmonic balancer. The inner seal/gasket on mine is a little chewed up. Does this warrant replacement?
The money I've saved on new steel gears might need to go to a new harmonic balancer. The inner seal/gasket on mine is a little chewed up. Does this warrant replacement?
#27
#28
That thing was lunched long ago. Needs replaced. They can be rebuilt, though the cost with shipping included might be getting up there. Believe it or not the crankshaft can crack or even break when they are defective. Or, the heavy steel outer ring launches itself into the radiator etc.
Btw, did you ever perform a compression test as suggested last August? This is important because there's not much point in spending any money on it if the compression is 80 pounds, burned valve and needs a complete overhaul etc etc.
Btw, did you ever perform a compression test as suggested last August? This is important because there's not much point in spending any money on it if the compression is 80 pounds, burned valve and needs a complete overhaul etc etc.
#29
That thing was lunched long ago. Needs replaced. They can be rebuilt, though the cost with shipping included might be getting up there. Believe it or not the crankshaft can crack or even break when they are defective. Or, the heavy steel outer ring launches itself into the radiator etc.
Btw, did you ever perform a compression test as suggested last August? This is important because there's not much point in spending any money on it if the compression is 80 pounds, burned valve and needs a complete overhaul etc etc.
Btw, did you ever perform a compression test as suggested last August? This is important because there's not much point in spending any money on it if the compression is 80 pounds, burned valve and needs a complete overhaul etc etc.
I bought the compression tester and planned on doing a bench test - is it better to do it while it's still in the truck?
EDIT: I'll also mention that the truck was running when I pulled the engine and transmission.
#30
The crank gear pictured is steel. The cam gear pictured is IRON. The fine tooth gears are quieter than coarse teeth and stronger than fiber.
If you are going to pull the head do not remove the rocker arms. Loosen all the head bolts a few turns and let the valve spring pressure on the rocker arms "pry" the head loose from the head gasket / block. Then remove the rocker arms / pushrods.
If you are going to pull the head do not remove the rocker arms. Loosen all the head bolts a few turns and let the valve spring pressure on the rocker arms "pry" the head loose from the head gasket / block. Then remove the rocker arms / pushrods.