Hi all...

my engine (460) was built and initially run in using conventional dinosaur oil... after the run in it was stored on a stand dry until dropping in the frame...

About ready to fill all the fluids and fire it off again... I'm thinking of going with synthetic.

anyone see any problems with doing that ??? suggestions and comments welcome..

john

 

I would break in the engine first. Here is a good article on the subject.
Engine Break-In Guide: 10 Tips to Help Properly Break in Your Engine - OnAllCylinders

 

PA crude, now rarely available, was the best crude oil - a straight chain, paraffin base natural lubricant that required little refining. Refining techniques have improved and dino oils provide excellent protection. All the major dino oils (Pennzoil, Quaker State, etc.) are similar; read the MSDS sheets.

If you use the proper viscosity and follow regular oil and filter change maintenance, you will be fine with dino.

 

I hear that, but back in the day Pennzoil and Quaker state seemed to have a reputation amongst mechanics. Pull the valve covers and they were completely full of sludge, even with regular oil changes. Short trips? I dunno. PA crude is supposed to be good oil, but. If I got a whiff of Penzoil burning on an exhaust manifold it's 1972 all over again, really distinctive odor. All the grease monkeys used Valvoline or Castrol iirc.

 

good article Mike... thanks for sharing... my plan was similar other than using syn oil. I'm a big fan of Castrol... going with that...

Another question came to mind... coolant... is there a way to "Pressure" fill the radiator to get rid of the air that is trapped... No heater hoses yet, just upper and lower hoses... a sealed system. If I put in the coolant... all it will hold, can I use an air hose to pressurize the radiator to circulate it...before starting... would it push the coolant into the passages and get the air back to the radiator ?? trying to do everything that will make start up correct.

j

 

I haven't had trouble with trapped air, pretty sure once you start running it the air will be forced out and I wouldn't introduce air to it John, seems it would be counter productive..

 

Tedster is right. My life as a paid mechanic began in '70. I can't tell you how many times I pulled valve covers and intake manifolds from engines that had been using Pennzoil, and even worse Quaker State, that were so massively packed with crud that you couldn't see the rocker arms or pushrods. Many times the crud was so thick the bottom of the intake would leave its impression molded into the crud. You could pull the lid from a quart of Quaker State and actually see the paraffin swirling in the oil. They're probably competitive today but i still wouldn't use either on a bicycle chain. Along the same lines, Kendall was always considered the absolute best and I would still recommend it today - if you can find it.

Today you'll hear many theories, "break it in with mineral then switch to synthetic", "never use synthetic in an engine that wasn't designed for it", etc. To me, for what it's worth, it depends mostly on the quality of the machine work and parts used, coupled with its intended use. Cast rings vs. chrome moly, gasket and seal types, sustained high rpm or not, etc. I used to run a little FIAT sport coupe I built (emphasis on 'built') up to 11,000 rpm on dino oil, without issue, all day long. But that was when synthetics were just beginning to show up. That engine would get synthetic these days. Back then I had a rule of thumb: after 1,500 miles I would begin watching the oil pressure gauge for significant pressure drop at warm idle speed. When that occurred the oil was changed and never over 3,000 miles. After four years of thrashing that engine daily it was still as strong as day one and the inside still looked like it was assembled the day before. I used straight mineral oil in everything until the price of Mobile One at WalMart has dropped to a buck a quart more than straight mineral oil. Now that's what I use in everything, even my lawn mower. If you're still sitting on the fence why not go hybrid and use Motorcraft blended? I can't see how anyone could go wrong doing that, no matter what their engine or configuration.

One final thought... I'm not a big believer in extended oil changes. Straight mineral oils or hybrids - 3,000 miles max. Synthetics 5 - 7,000. My reasoning is no matter how good the oil is there will always be contaminants. As cheap as high quality (not high advertising budget) lubricants are these days it just doesn't make sense not to do the maintenance.I don't think anyone here is concerned about the maintenance costs of a fleet of 1,000+ vehicles so it shouldn't be that difficult to come up with the scratch to err on the side of longevity.

Sorry for the long post, after having lived and worked through the mineral oil vs. synthetic debates for so long I had to let it out somewhere. Sorry about your luck, LOL.

 

That was true, but in the early '60s as the Pennsylvania fields (paraffin base) dried up Quaker State, whose sales were through the roof, to keep up with demand went to asphalt base oil but didn't change their additive package sufficiently to account for the change from relatively clean paraffin based oil. Significant sludging would occur and was very evident on the Y-blocks that I owned back then when you pulled the rocker covers. All the oil passages to the rocker arms became clogged with resultant wear and eventual poor performance despite regular oil changes. There were even an aftermarket kits that added external or additional oil feed tubes to the rocker arms for those that could not afford an engine overhaul. A bandaid at best.

Then, as oil became a commodity and manufacturers purchased oil from all over the world, controlling which additive packages were needed became difficult. Brands that were once the standard suddenly were causing problems. This is one of the reasons synthetic oils were created. IMO you get a more consistent protection package with synthetic oil.

 

Lots of good info here... thanks guys..

so I filled it with Castrol 10w30 and will use that as an after break-in oil. If I wanted to switch over to syn... how long would you wait 3000?? 5000?? this isn't a daily driver... just a weekend cruise machine... probably a year before I get to 5000?

and I also believe in 3k oil and filter changes... and it makes me pucker up a little to wait to 5k on the syn in my Suburban

j

 

Motor oil is hydroscopic and moisture contamination can cause corrosion and depletion of the oil’s additives. Therefore, time is also a relevant factor.

I change the oil and filter at least once a year since I put low mileage on my truck; a small expense for a huge investment.

 

Oil and engines have come along way in the past 25-30 years. I used to feel the same way. But when I got the Mercedes the oil change intervals were 20,000 KM (13,000 miles !) I was sort like WTH no way but that is what they were. This is on full syn and the Mercedes Oil spec is pretty stiff, regardless with that kind of interval i did not trust it and took oil samples at oil change for analysis and they have continuously come back that the oil has not any were near reached the end of it's service life. The car now has over 220 KM (136K miles) on it and the engine is as clean internally as the day it was bought and does not use a drop of oil between changes.


Really the only way to know for sure is to have your oil analyzed by one of the labs and they will tell you how much more life is left in it.
No point in changing the oil before it needs to be as you are just flushing money down the toilet. I use synthetic in every thing and all the vehicles are on 8K to 11K mile intervals now.

 

I had a 2000 Dakota that had the Mercedes 4.9 in it and I also change every 3000 I used castrol. My pick-up tube plugged up at 150,000 miles. I got on to the web site and some other dodge 4.9's were doing the same thing one at 13,000 miles. I babied mine and ended up getting 290,000 miles on it but will never have another dog ya dodge. The oil fill tube was plastic and always had the with frosting inside. I drove all day so it was not a problem of short drives.

 

I think you mean the 3.9L V6. The 3.9L was based off the LA engine architecture but with split crank pins and 2 fewer cylinders that engine was all Chrysler and was introduced in 87.

 

Well it might have been the 4.7 now that you mention it. All I did with the last cylinder on each side was hold an extra spark plug oh and the cam on each head was for when the center one was worn out. Going back to school to learn to count. I only had the truck for six years dude.

 

The 4.7 was designed by Chrysler it was in vehicles and sold (4.7L 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee went on sale in Sept 98) before Daimler Chrysler was formed on Nov 18 1999. This is one of those myths that goes around, the 4.7L was all done in house by Chrysler, Development on the 4.7 started in early 96 Mercedes had no involvement with it.
When the 4.7 was reworked for the 08 model year to fix some of the inherent deficiencies in the design, that work was done by Stuttgart (Mercedes).