You would have given them more on their trade if they had just asked? Lol stop it! 😂

 

The dealer holds 90% of the cards? Not sure what you mean by that. From my point of view the consumer holds 99% of the cards. I didn't like the deal I got offered from a dealership 10 minutes away from me so I went 20 minutes away from me and got a better deal. The closer dealership missed out. The consumer is the one with the money and there are plenty of dealerships around. The dealership is competing with the consumer and with other dealerships as well. I don't see how they hold more than 1% of the cards just for proximity purposes only.

 

Blind sheep are the preferred customers....
And if they would have told you they were shopping around... You wouldn't have given them a price or any more of your time according to some of your previous posts.

 

See, here's where we the whole point of confusion is coming from. I didn't say we're getting the short end, and don't pretend we are. Generally we make money. I make about $1k for the dealer on the front end alone, I consider the deals I write for my commercial accounts to be 100% win win for us and the customer. I'm not saying you should go out and pay more than you do, and I don't think the advice I give folks will lead to that. But I do think dealers make far less than you think, and I have no trouble believing a dealer would be losing $1k on a deal. I've been pretty active on this forum for about three years, mostly in the current F150/SD, Transit and Connect forums. I check on the older models once in awhile, mostly to see what issues folks come up with. This is the very first time I remember seeing someone post that they were shown the gross screen of ADP (or similar... G is the button I use on ADP, so one can assume...) If a deal is exactly how it's being printed, then the G screen is the real figures. If something gets changed after, well it got changed. So all I can assume is that the gross on the OP deal is a real $1k loss. And since no one else has chimed in that they know a different accounting system using the same commands where that would show something else... the discussion has simply been on of "dealers lie". All I know is, if I ever shows a customer the gross screen (which I've never done), it would only be if the numbers were legit that they could compare with the figures they go home with. Integrity matters a great deal to me, hence my passionate defense. I do KNOW that the process only gets hard with customers generally being the games players. IMO, shopping other dealers is a game. I simply don't see the need for it if you educate yourself. I do know lots of folks use the wholesale line. Customers are trained for it. Customers tell me all the time "I know you'll probably just wholesale this" and it's like a 80k 6 year old car. Are you kidding? I can nearly always promise we'll make more money off that trade then I make off the deal. Problem is, that doesn't help me any unless I'm the one selling the used one! My deal is based only off ACV of the trade, not it's potential for future profits. Still I tell folks we'll put some money into it and sell it to a college kid on our lot. As I said, there is a chance they gave a steeper discount BECAUSE you were trading than otherwise would have happened. That's dangerous, because if you had pulled the trade, they'd be in the hole, but it happens. Sales folks get the short end in how we're perceived, but we get paid. Not a ton, but it's good income even for run of the mill retail deals considering they'll take anyone with a HS diploma and no felony's. My only objection is that most of us are pretty honest. FWIW I've been just under $60k for the past two years. I'm no all star, but make more than about everyone but the long time commercial guy and the retail guy that's been here over 20 years. I'm in plenty of FB pages for sales folks. Even the vulgar ones people don't talk too much about making tons of money. It's mostly making fun of customers for everything I talk about with misconceptions. Emails are posted (with a strong focus on privacy surprisingly, no one wants to lose their job), that show the crazy expectations. If you've ever made a list to send to 10 dealers so they could bid on your business, it's probably being made fun of somewhere. That's the stuff we talk about. I simply try to give our perspective to the group of customers I relate with best, Ford truck customers. I'm not trying to cry and get pity, I just think it's a shame, and leads to customer frustration, when you go in expecting to be lied to, when even if it happens, there is no excuses not to understand how much they're making from the transaction. I've offered this challenge before, but this topic makes it more real I suppose. If you worked out what you think is your best deal with your local dealer, then thought of a profit you think they should be making on a purchase of that size, ask if you can see the gross screen. If you use the quick steps I've stated, It's probably lower than you thought was fair, especially if you based it off of a percentage. Maybe it wouldn't be. Maybe you will find out we make way more than you think we should. But remember, that profit goes to pay for a salesperson, a manager, a clean up guy, a finance manager, folks who do the title work (mostly via the doc fee), and the owner. Too many people perhaps... but it's more efficient than ANY government program!

As for the ignorant comments... and please, take this with the humor I intend, I lived out in central Pa for a few years and they do all use the word "ignorant", ignorantly. I was always ignorant to why. Out there, they use it to mean "rude". That really wouldn't make sense in this context. Though a friend of mine told me "you'd make a good hick, but you use too bigga words". No ***** that's what he said. Though internet threats are cute, we don't really need em here.

 

Sure, why wouldn't we buy a car for what it's worth? If I was holding $500 on it and they said "give us $500 more or we're leaving", I would have said, "Okay, lets get this wrapped up for you". I wasn't losing any money, just not making as much.

Exactly! I can never know the full details (including how you acted), but from my perspective, the only reason a dealer wouldn't give you the deal you wanted was if you acted like you were going to go somewhere else. YOU HOLD THE CARDS. Whatever hand I have, yours is better. So let me win by getting the deal, and you can win the rest of the chips. Actually, that's a darn fine analogy.

 

Frantz, you should just cut your losses because it is clear you are not going to win in this. I am one that believes a dealer should make a profit. For those in here that say they don't care if they do.. well if they are business owners and I flip the books, they sure as **** will care if they turn a profit. I'm an invoice + rebates guy. The dealer has every right to make a profit and fell their holdback is theirs to keep. HOWEVER, do not start throwing $499 admin fees at me. Invoice price is what I will pay, that's what I expect (plus title - no sales tax in my state).

I appreciate your insite and I believe everything you are saying. Amazing seeing others try and twist your comments around. Bow out gracefully lol.

 

Grace? Now that's an insult sir!

Such "discussions" are always of value to the bystanders. I don't intend to sway someones beliefs, but so long as I can mount a logical and honest rebuttal, then there is value to it. The post have been painfully long today, sorry, but I really don't think I've repeated myself too much. So it's a bunch of valuable ideas IMO.

 

I took your advice went to local guy. Was straight up honest and told him wanted to stay local but wanted his best deal. After some hee haw games he came back with invoice, I said really I asked you for no games and your best price. He came back with another number. So after that I did it my way and guess was laughed at but I emailed it out to 5 or so dealers and saved 2000$. My other nearest local was beat by 1500$ and the dealership I went with is 32 miles away, the others were around 10 miles. Local guys wouldn't touch price to keep me around. So I tried it both ways went straight up to local guy, they played games, i even have 3 trucks serviced there and they wouldn't match price. So I may be getting laughed at but I saved 2000$ and found a new service dealeship even though it's a longer drive.

I think this is some of the reason there is bad rep because they tell you they are doing everything they can and this is honestly their best price, then bad mouth the other dealer, say I don't know how they got that number and the list of excuses go on and on. But i for one don't reward with my business for bashing their competition for 30 min. Just give me the deal, keep me staying local, and and be honest. When I get a price 2000$ less on same build truck then I know you weren't being honest. I can see a couple hundred bucks, and I wouldn't mind that but 2k$??? Come on

 

Sorry I missed this one. if you have been shopping around, I'd take the deal by beating other dealers if I thought you were ready to be done, just like the next guy would do if I knew you were going to continue. I would bow out if you're just shopping for the best price because it's a waste of my time and yours because I know I won't get the deal, and you think there is a better one down the street, and we're both right until YOU decide "I'll buy one from here". You and I wouldn't be a good coupling because you refuse to believe in the internet's powers, and I trust it foolishly. We both are irrational to one another. I choose not to pretend to be different than I am. It cost me some sales, earns me others, and I get occasional complementary job offers.

 

I NEVER told you to try that. I have said over and over that I REFUSE to use the word "BEST". Why didn't you start with doing online research for the invoice cost like I DID say and work from there? Ignoring the most important parts of my advise, getting 5 minutes of education and letting them know what you have and what you want, and then suggesting it doesn't work to attack me is a bridge too far... It's 8:30... I've sold one today... I'm going home and getting some beer and will resist beer foruming tonight (-=

 

Frantz......yes the finance Manager called it the "G" screen. When I asked him what that meant, he said "Gross". The number was large and near the center of the screen making it obvious.

 

Whoa! Not attacking you man. Just saying tried your local thing, it didn't work. I knew all the invoice-holdback-rebates-etc, so yes I was educated. I ended up getting a better deal that I was even hoping for after reading these forums for 6 months and getting advice, cramming numbers and calculating out where I wanted to be. I took a little from everyone on here, but just making a statement that the emailing out got me the best deal, even though you were saying some dealers laugh at it. I had great responses and an easy transaction with the best bidder. And like I've said on here before I'm the consumer I'm paying the bill I will go where I get the best deal.

 

Frantz... my window sticker says $48500.... I paid $42000. Can you tell from those numbers if the dealer lost money? I can be more specific if you need me to be just to clarify things.

 

They're gonna make it up on volume? The dealer didn't lose money.

 

I'm on the "don't care if the dealer makes a profit" side. I do own a business and yes I do make a profit. But I'm a realist. Everyday I have customers or potential customers negotiating with me. If you think they care about my profit vs their bottom line then you sir are insane. 😂