[QUOTE=Frantz;17288342]Yes, You should get your own rate and then let the dealer try to beat it. It insures you aren't getting a higher rate than you qualify for, and allows the dealer to make some money. It's in your interest to get the dealer interested in your deal, going only though your bank means they'll make less money, which means you'll likely spend more. It's how things work./QUOTE]

My dealer couldn't come close to my interest rate and they gave me exactly what KBB and my bank said my trade in was worth. I was pretty happy with the numbers and negotiated a fair price for a warranty.

 

I would say that it's just another lie to impress the prospective buyer. Like all the other sales gimmicks.

 

If you have a high credit score, they generally don't bother with pushing hard on financing because they know you can get a good rate most anywhere. Where they make money is with people who don't bother to find out what they can get elsewhere or have poor credit. They might tell you they got you a "great rate" at 3.9% but actually only paying 2.9% and pocketing the 1% difference. On a $25K car, financed over 5 years, that's $640 in the dealers pocket.

There is a reason dealers advertise about how they can help people with "bad or no credit"....they make good money doing it.

 

While I don't agree with your idea about utilizing information I will say that I understand what you're saying.

My thought is to look around at a bunch of dealships (different brands) just to get an idea of what your money buys. Then figure out a deal you can be happy with and ask for it. If everyone is saying no....then you may be too low. I had 2 dealers offer me the close to the deal I got. Once I had 2 offers I asked for a little something extra (without disclosing the other dealers name or deal specifics). I went with the one that went a little extra. I don't care if the dealer made money or lost money. I'm happy with my deal so that's what matters to me.

Also don't you think it's a little bit disingenuous to claim that you lost money? It seems like every dealer I went to had a brand-new fancy building. They didn't get that by losing money on every deal. So I think when people call salesman or dealers "Liars" it's because of situations like this where they claim to lose money.

 

I'd like to know the name of a dealer that would let a vehicle leave the lot for just $300 profit when everything is said and done... Evan if the deal looks like $300 profit to the buyer there is money on the back end of the deal somewhere not including warranties or service or the high dollar glorified Simoniz application they push at the end of the deal or the nitrogen replacement in the tires that will have little or no positive effect on fuel economy ....
" But salesman hate customers"
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FWIW there are certainly different strategies for how to market in todays world. For commercial units when someone asks me for a quote, I give them invoice and the rebates. This gives me the holdback to work with, making a living on, and fix stuff that goes wrong that I feel we owe to the customer to make right (ends up as a change back to me out of the deal). For folks on the Forum I've been offering to split the holdback.

I do see some dealers (around bigger cities often) that sell at invoice minus holdback. This would be a loss on a cash deal, hands down (because part of the holdback is meant to cover costs). They market at loss and work off volume, assuming 9/10 folks finance, buy warranties, etc. Put them against the wall and they'll lose a grand to honor the price and move on. They might sell warranty for 200% profit while giving the truck away. I've even seen some advertised pricing that requires a trade, and it's not for a trade rebate, they just want to show a price a grand under everyone else, and then the trade numbers will come back low. So yes, there are plenty of "tricks" that I hate in the industry as well. The problem with customers is, on one hand, they know there are tricks, so they call dealers liars, but on the other hand, they believe the tricks are real, so when their local, more honest dealer, gives them a real good price, they insist that the dealer is trying to rip them off and then go give their business to the tricksters. So yeah, being an upfront person in car sales (as honestly most sales people are), it gets frustrating seeing your business go to the companies that do it dishonestly while the customers complain about the dishonest dealers.

 

Dealer I bought from is a "One price" store, invoice minus rebates....no DOC fees. Take it or leave it. Some people prefer the game but I appreciate that mentality. Makes it easy to calculate exactly what you will pay before you even set foot inside the door.
My favorite is the dealers that quote a big discount off MSRP and the fine print says "Excludes Destination Fee".....which is part of the MSRP. If that is not "smoke and mirrors, I don't know what is.

 

There is a dealer near me that advertises big discounts on Cars.com but when you read the fine print, they don't include Destination, DOC Fee ($699) and $500 for Nitrogen in the tires....LOL. So their big discount is really a scam.
I also see quite a few dealers that are putting very limited inventory info on their websites, no pictures, no Window Stickers, no selling price at all.......they want you in the store where they have the advantage......pure and simple.

 

I think this process of " no negotiations " would be easier for costomers. The thing is it didn't work for Saturn and it didn't work for scion so maybe it's not such a good idea after all?

 

Just for clarification, I was very happy with the Internet sales manager and my salesman at the dealership I bought from. My salesman was very nice helping with my 1 year old during my 2 hours at the shop. Lol I only had to deal with the finance manager for like 10 minutes so it's not a big deal. I understand it's part of his job to try and sell me warrantees and fabric protection Etc.

 

I think people simply have it ingrained in their heads that dealers are out to rip them off so if there is no negotiation, there must be something wrong. My process is to decide what the vehicle is worth to me and if I can get it for that price, great. If not, move on.......they make cars every day.

Most stereotypes have some basis in truth and car dealers are pretty notorious. As with any business, there are some better than others.

 

I guess my main point was with this dealers pricing strategy, you can calculate the selling price of any vehicle on their lot without setting foot in the door.....saves time and brain cells of sitting in a dealership for 3 or 4 hours only to walk away in the end.

 

I had exactly the same experience the day I bought my truck with the dealership I went to (minus the 1 year old). I knew what I was looking for when I went on-line. The Internet Sales Manager was able to point me in the right direction, and when I arrived they had the truck up front and handed me off to the salesman. I told him what I was willing to spend and we negotiated a fair price. To my knowledge, he was very up front with the price of the truck and any discounts I could possibly receive. I don't like to go back-and-forth on price and I was upfront about that. They respected that at the dealership and I left happy. I don't think that salespeople at car dealerships are, by nature, dishonest. I think they're just trying to make a living...as am I.

Cheers!

 

It does come off all wrong when you say "this is why salesmen hate customers". Maybe "some customers" would have been better. I believe myself to be an excellent customer to my dealership. When I knew what I wanted, I got the order catalog from this forum, spec'd out exactly the options I wanted, walked in to the dealership and told them I was x-plan and laid down the catalog on the desk. Everything I wanted was highlighted. The salesman told me he'd email me the order sheet once it was submitted in a few hours. He called me later that day and said I had the email and please stop by with a $1k check sometime that week. I went back in that evening and dropped off the check and signed my order sheet.

Then I had the huge 8 month wait ordering fiasco, but the GM of the dealership worked well with me and took care of it. I was extended a permanent 20% off MSRP on all accessories I buy through their parts departments. All liquids and filters for my truck are at wholesale price through the parts department. Every time I walk into the dealership for something, the parts manager asks if I need anything, the salesman I bought my truck from comes over and says hi, and the GM comes over and asks to make sure everything is perfect on my truck.

I really like the guys at my dealership and I think they like me too. No hate flowing here man.

 

I had the exact opposite issue.....my truck arrived too quickly. I ordered the truck in early April and was expecting the standard 6-8 week lead-time. Truck actually arrived at the dealer 30 days later. Dealer was very cool about it and allowed me another 3 weeks before I took delivery. Seems they will do most anything, on the front end at least, to make sure they get all 5 stars on the survey........