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Hi Everyone. When I turn the key to start my truck I can hear my starter spinning, but it doesn't engage the engine, just revs up really fast and stops when I cut the key power. I turn the key all the way back to off and try again and same thing. I do it one more time and it spins, engages, and starts right up within a turn or two on the engine. It runs fine once going, but almost always takes 3 tries to get the starter to engage the flywheel and turn the engine. Wondering what this could be and possible remedies. It hasn't gotten any worse, but I've only had the truck on the road for about a month after a year of resurrecting it from a 15 year stint in a field.
I havent had the starter off yet so I can't speak to any physical wear on it yet, just hoping for some common knowledge before I pull it out and go replacing parts to chase a symptom.
Hi Everyone. When I turn the key to start my truck I can hear my starter spinning, but it doesn't engage the engine, just revs up really fast and stops when I cut the key power. I turn the key all the way back to off and try again and same thing. I do it one more time and it spins, engages, and starts right up within a turn or two on the engine. It runs fine once going, but almost always takes 3 tries to get the starter to engage the flywheel and turn the engine. Wondering what this could be and possible remedies. It hasn't gotten any worse, but I've only had the truck on the road for about a month after a year of resurrecting it from a 15 year stint in a field.
I havent had the starter off yet so I can't speak to any physical wear on it yet, just hoping for some common knowledge before I pull it out and go replacing parts to chase a symptom.
Assuming the battery is good...
The little gear slides forward on the shaft. Maybe it's corroded, or the current to the bendix is weak. Either way, you're pulling the starter. You can look at the bendix, or just replace the whole starter.
While you have it out, check/upgrade the starter power lead and engine to battery ground
Hi Everyone. When I turn the key to start my truck I can hear my starter spinning, but it doesn't engage the engine, just revs up really fast and stops when I cut the key power. I turn the key all the way back to off and try again and same thing. I do it one more time and it spins, engages, and starts right up within a turn or two on the engine. It runs fine once going, but almost always takes 3 tries to get the starter to engage the flywheel and turn the engine. Wondering what this could be and possible remedies. It hasn't gotten any worse, but I've only had the truck on the road for about a month after a year of resurrecting it from a 15 year stint in a field.
I haven't had the starter off yet so I can't speak to any physical wear on it yet, just hoping for some common knowledge before I pull it out and go replacing parts to chase a symptom.
Ford used more than one type of starter on "our" trucks. I'm assuming that the one you are talking about is the 1977 F-150 with the 400 engine. If so, it probably looks like this:
and is known as "positive engagement starter" as opposed to the "solenoid actuated starter".
Since it will ultimately start the engine, there is nothing wrong with the motor itself or the power feeding it. As PBY said, the problem is in the connection between the starter's motor and the flywheel. Usually one of two possibilities. Either the starter drive:
is not moving along the shaft of the armature to engage the teeth of the flywheel or the overrunning clutch (in the wide part of the drive) is slipping and sometime "catching".
Since it had at least 15 years of outside storage without use, corrosion is always a possibility.
You don't really need to replace the entire starter.
If it's a corrosion situation, you might be able to fix it without spending anything (except time).
If the overrunning clutch is slipping in the starter drive, you will have to replace the drive part only (shown above) (about $10 or so).
Either way you can get by cheap if you don't mind investing some time and effort. A rebuilt starter will cost considerably more. But you will need to remove the starter and inspect it to determine your path to follow.
When removing the starter it's always best to first disconnect the battery. Then, if you're working from below, some people leave the positive cable a little connected to the starter until they get the starter loose from the engine. This will keep it from crashing into your face and taking some of the fun out of the job.
Last edited by Ozzie H.; Jun 24, 2017 at 01:17 AM.
Reason: Added information
@Ozzie it is a 77 with a 400 C6. Originally it had a 351 which the PO blew and had a 400 crate motor dropped in before he got another truck and parked this one. The crate motor only has 1200 miles on it according to the paperwork. I'll pull the starter and take a look, hopefully get to it today. I've rebuilt solonoid actuated starters before and found them pretty simple. Thanks!
So I got the starter pulled today, looks like my bendix is worn, and as stated it wasn't engaging the flywheel until usually the 3rd try.
Since I had it opened I also peeked inside and noticed some significant wear on my copper connections.
Since I think it needs more than just the bendix gear, I'll go ahead and reassemble and change it out entirely.
Also, unrelated, while on a short drive today, just after it really warmed up to temp (guage read about 190) the truck started shifting very rough and shortly thereafter did what I would call stalling out as I came to a stop sign. I pushed it over to the side of the road and let it cool down to about 150 Before it finally fired up. I suspected the diaphragm on the vacuum modulator was going out or not properly adjusted. Went to check for fluid inside the vacuum hose and it turns out I have a massive blowout in the hose . It was routed too close to the exhaust I believe.
Tough to troubleshoot a shift issue while stuck on the side of the road with a starter going out. Luckily I was only a about 1/2 mile from home and could get it started once it cooled down and take it back to my garage.
I'll report back back after I get a new starter and vacuum hose installed.
Totally agreed, do you think that wear could cause my symptom. If it sits for a bit I always use a trickle charger and it usually fires right up, but after being out and stopped it takes at least 3 tries to get the gear to engage the flywheel.
Between the cost for drive gear, brushes, and time I've decided to just head to oreillys and replace the whole unit.
The one one I pulled out is an autolite and I can't find anything on google about them still being sold. All oreillys has are Ultima, BesTest, and Wilson. All between $40 and $57. Any suggestions on available brands. It's not a daily driver so if need be I could order something better online, just not trying to spend more than necessary.
Also PYB, it was shifting rough and having trouble figuring out which gear to be in once it warmed up and I had gone several miles. Then it just stopped running as I pulled up to a stop. Once it cooled for about 20 minutes I got it to start again and creeped home. Could this issue be related to the vacuum hose on the C6 vacuum modulator, I had no fluid when I pulled the hose so I'm assuming the diaphragm is fine. If not at all related to the engine stopping then I'll start a new thread once I get the starter and hose replaced. Thanks for the insight!
The last starter I bought for my 351m was from O'Reilly. I don't remember a brand name on it, but it seems like it had a green tag. It's been on for over a year, and I've had headers most of the time it's been on. Starter still starts great-even on our 120ish degree days.
The vacuum line to your modulator is definitely a problem. The modulator is basically what shifts the transmission into second. Even without the modulator/transmission/shifting issue, the vacuum leak was gonna give you headaches
It sounds like you are on the way to problem resolution as long as you get a quality rebuilt starter. If there is doubt, new ones are also available at a slightly higher cost or buy the components and fix the old one. In any case you should get it resolved. The hose should be a simple fix.
I have a 76 f250 with a 360. I am trying to start it but running into problems with the starter. I benched tested the starter and it would just vibrate and not spin.
so I went to napa and bought a new starter. The new one when I hooked up the one terminal the positive it would just spin slowly and not go fast or engage when power to sent to it. So then I took the cover off and pushed down the bendix, that’s when it spun up and engaged.
I am just wondering how does that work without having to push down on the bendix to make it engage. What do I need to do to get it to turn over when power is applied to urn the engine over? Please let me know thank you.
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