PMGR starter problems!
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
PMGR starter problems!
Hey guys, I have a bugger of a problem. My old (77) starter went out. Since I have headers and had to a C clamp and crow bar to get the old one out, I changed to a 92 4.9 smaller pmgr starter.
I researched and changed the 4 ga. lead to the batter side of the sol., and ran a 10 ga. lead from the post on the sol. where the + lead bolted on originally, and connected to the small wire on the starter.
It started fine a few times, disengaged fine. But when I drove it it was fine for a few miles until I got on it. Then it made a terrible noise, as though the starter was engaging. I thought maybe the oem solenoid beside the battery was going bad and making the trigger lead hot while running. I disconnected the trigger lead while the truck was running. Got on it from a stop and no noise. But half way around the block it started again.
It is fine at idle or cruise. But on acceleration it makes a terrible noise. It makes me wonder if a flexplate nut came loose.
Any ideas?
I researched and changed the 4 ga. lead to the batter side of the sol., and ran a 10 ga. lead from the post on the sol. where the + lead bolted on originally, and connected to the small wire on the starter.
It started fine a few times, disengaged fine. But when I drove it it was fine for a few miles until I got on it. Then it made a terrible noise, as though the starter was engaging. I thought maybe the oem solenoid beside the battery was going bad and making the trigger lead hot while running. I disconnected the trigger lead while the truck was running. Got on it from a stop and no noise. But half way around the block it started again.
It is fine at idle or cruise. But on acceleration it makes a terrible noise. It makes me wonder if a flexplate nut came loose.
Any ideas?
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,603
Likes: 10
From: Spokane, WA
How To Properly Wire Your PMGR Mini-Starter - Ford Bronco Forum
Check your wiring against that...I bookmarked that article some years ago when I was going to change starters...which I haven't done yet since the one that is currently on the engine gives no sign of giving up yet...
Check your wiring against that...I bookmarked that article some years ago when I was going to change starters...which I haven't done yet since the one that is currently on the engine gives no sign of giving up yet...
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
How To Properly Wire Your PMGR Mini-Starter - Ford Bronco Forum
Check your wiring against that...I bookmarked that article some years ago when I was going to change starters...which I haven't done yet since the one that is currently on the engine gives no sign of giving up yet...
Check your wiring against that...I bookmarked that article some years ago when I was going to change starters...which I haven't done yet since the one that is currently on the engine gives no sign of giving up yet...
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,477
Likes: 19
From: Sheffield, AL
F-250 restorer, since this noise only began after the work recently done, check the starter and header alignment. Perhaps something came loose or broke when you had to pry to remove the original [larger] starter?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
Thanks, guys. After sleeping on it I realized that it had to be starter related. But I couldn't understand how I could disconnect the trigger wire and the sound still came. Nor could I fathom why it only happens when I get on it, and not every time I get on it.
I will check for broken pipes, etc.
Now I suspect that it may need shims ....
After fighting the oem starter with removal/installation, I will say it was glorious how the efi stater went in!!!
I will check for broken pipes, etc.
Now I suspect that it may need shims ....
After fighting the oem starter with removal/installation, I will say it was glorious how the efi stater went in!!!
Tuned
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 367
Likes: 2
From: summerfield florida
Two Quick Questions:
Do you have the spacer plate between engine and trans?
Does the starter match the trans you have (std or auto)?
Do you have the spacer plate between engine and trans?
Does the starter match the trans you have (std or auto)?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
Problem solved. I installed two shims, washers, and there is no more noise.
It ingages and disengages properly, or so it seems.
It would be nice to fab a spacer plate to go over the entire circumference of the starter, where it mates to the bellhousing or oem spacer plate, but for now I am pleased, if just a bit concerned about torque on the bolt ears.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,477
Likes: 19
From: Sheffield, AL
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
Something like this? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/rnb-02359/overview/
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
This raises an interesting point. Does the efi era starter require more cranking amps than the older starters?
I have 12.36 volts registering on my battery and it cranks the new starter slowly, as though the battery is dying.
I have 12.36 volts registering on my battery and it cranks the new starter slowly, as though the battery is dying.
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 544
Likes: 6
From: Kalispell, MT
that is interesting. not to insult your mechanical prowess (you know more about these BB6s than most)...but you're sure all terminals are shiny clean? good clean grounds as well? Just a thought.
I wonder if they do draw more juice though. smaller starter motor to do equal the amount of work as the carbed engine starter...stands to reason it'd need a bit more current. might be worth looking into the manufacturer ratings, or even running some tests.
I wonder if they do draw more juice though. smaller starter motor to do equal the amount of work as the carbed engine starter...stands to reason it'd need a bit more current. might be worth looking into the manufacturer ratings, or even running some tests.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 862
Likes: 7
From: like subarctic, brrr man!
How To Properly Wire Your PMGR Mini-Starter - Ford Bronco Forum
Check your wiring against that...I bookmarked that article some years ago when I was going to change starters...which I haven't done yet since the one that is currently on the engine gives no sign of giving up yet...
Check your wiring against that...I bookmarked that article some years ago when I was going to change starters...which I haven't done yet since the one that is currently on the engine gives no sign of giving up yet...
But I wanted to add something to that diagram and that's to use a Fusible Link on that small #12 wire to the starter. I'm kinda **** about stuff like that, butt I know the factory probably didn't use one there.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,477
Likes: 19
From: Sheffield, AL
F-250 restorer, I believe it was The Frenchtown Flyer who in the past has said it requires less amperage. Please correct me if I misquoted you, FTF. Is the "slowness" you are noticing due to the gear reduction incorporated in the PMGR starter? Is the ground path as good while you use the washers as shims?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,187
Likes: 384
From: Near Los Angeles
that is interesting. not to insult your mechanical prowess (you know more about these BB6s than most)...but you're sure all terminals are shiny clean? good clean grounds as well? Just a thought.
I wonder if they do draw more juice though. smaller starter motor to do equal the amount of work as the carbed engine starter...stands to reason it'd need a bit more current. might be worth looking into the manufacturer ratings, or even running some tests.
I wonder if they do draw more juice though. smaller starter motor to do equal the amount of work as the carbed engine starter...stands to reason it'd need a bit more current. might be worth looking into the manufacturer ratings, or even running some tests.
After testing the battery and finding iit good, I'm wondering if I damaged the starter by driving it a bit when iit was making the noise. It simply should not barely crank. I have good think power lead to the starter, good 10ga trigger wire, good batt. juice, good 4ga ground. I should remove and clean the ground though. I did not do that. Remember that lazyness I spoke of?
I'll ck the ground, and if that doesn't change things I'll warranty the starter.