What's up everyone. I am wanting some ideas on what to do for wheels on my 04 dually.

So here's the situation. I currently have stock wheels, the fronts and outside rears being aluminum and the inside rears being steel.

I'm trying to figure out a way to rotate my tires easily without needing to dismount them from the wheels. A lot of guys say they just rotate side to side, and when the fronts wear out they just get 2 new tires. I want to rotate them properly, but again without spending money each time to unmount/remount, which will get expensive.

So far, I have come up with 2 ideas. This is where you all come in to help me decide what would be better to do.

First is to find 2 more stock aluminum wheels to replace the inside rears so I have 6 aluminum wheels. This way I can just move the wheels around. Now I know what most of you are thinking at this point, that the insides get messed up from rocks etc. I can see how this is true, but I drive on pavement and live in the city, and from what I've seen on my wheels is that they simply get dirty, which I have a way to help prevent taking hours to clean which I will type at the end of the post. Another thing is the face of the wheels will get scratched up from being mounted against the hub, and the 2 rear wheels touching each other. For my setup in particular, this is not an issue for me. Reason being, I run 2" spacers in between the rears so my 315/75/16s don't rub. The surface area of the spacer touches just a bit less of the face of the wheel than the diameter of the center caps, so the center caps will cover any scratches caused by this. If I DIDN'T have spacers, more of the wheel would be scratched by the 2 wheels being mounted directly against each other.

Also, as far as 2 aluminum wheels not fitting on the rear hub, since I have the spacers, this also isn't an issue for me, because the spacer is hub-centric so the outside wheel will have the lip of the spacer to mount on, and the inside of course will be in the stock position on the hub, so both will be able to be mounted and centered by the hub.

As far as cleaning them at the time of rotation so they look nice and clean, I plan to strip the clear coat off of each wheel and wetsand/polish them all, inside and outside, and then coat them again with a nice good quality clear coat, hopefully something hard that won't chip easy by little pebbles here and there, then wax/seal the clear coat really really good, and re-wax/seal them each time I rotate so they always stay looking nice and clean/polished and new. I believe this should work out pretty good. And even if theres a few marks on it over time, it's a work truck, and while I try to keep it kinda clean, the paint is by no means perfect, so it's not like it's a pleasure truck that is in mint condition.

My 2nd plan is to get 4 more steel wheels, and run 6 steel wheels, and just buy a nice set of chrome/polished/SS wheel simulators, and then no matter which way I mount the wheels, the wheel simulators will always provide a nice finished wheel. I've been told they only work on steel wheels (I'm not sure why to be honest), but if they do work on aluminum wheels, I wouldn't have to buy any steel wheels.

I've never seen wheel simulators in person up close, so I'm not sure what they really look like. Do they sit flush with the bead of the tire, or do they stick past that and look like hubcaps? Last night I was looking at some, and it looks like some clip/snap on, and others look like they screw on somehow with the lugs or some kind of adapter that comes with the wheel simulators. If anyone has some good close up shots of wheel simulators, even a pic of the wheel before and after to show how flush they sit in relation to the tire bead, I would appreciate it.

I look forward to hearing from you guys and hopefully helping me figure out a solution. I likely will always run the stock wheels and rear spacers on this truck, since I use it for a daily as well as hauling/towing when needed, so it's never going to have a nice new paint job, so I don't see the need for nice aftermarket wheels on this truck. Not to mention I can't afford them, nor will I ever really be able to fork out that amount of money for expensive aftermarket dually wheels.

Thanks!

 

On my 2015 Lariat, I went from the aluminums to the stock steels so I can rotate the tires "properly". The steels only added a total of 60 pounds to the weight of the truck. The aluminum's are 27 pounds each and the steels are 42 each. You can find new 16" steels for your truck for less than $100 each on eBay. I had to play approx $125 each for used 17's for mine. I do not run any sim's nor center caps. I kinda like the looks of it with the plain appearance.

 

post a pic of your truck if you don't mind.

what pattern do you use to rotate? also what tires do you run? the only thing i can't do by just switching the wheel locations around unless i'm thinking of it the wrong way is always have the white walls out on my BFG KO2's (only 1 side has white letters)

 

I polished and cleared the "inside" of my rear aluminum outers and just did a normal front to rear rotate about every 7500 miles. Even though Ford says the rear outers are different than the fronts they WILL work. I never had a problem with not rotating the rear inners but you could swap them side to side if you wanted.

 

My personal truck is a 99 F350 4wd DRW, I bought it about a year ago with aftermarket aluminum wheels. Just last week I ordered a new set of steel wheels and new Kelley Edge AT tires, so that I can rotate them. I'll probably put the wheel covers on them too, but haven't gone there yet.

My work truck is a 2012 F550 4wd DRW. I rotate the tires at the first sign of wear on the front tires. It is a 20k lb truck and tends to show wear on the front tires around 3-5K miles. I got about 35K miles on this last set of Goodyear tires in almost exactly a year. (My DOT inspection is due in two weeks.)

I've seen the same kind of wear on my F350 too and just today ordered a set of Rancho 9000 shocks to try to make my new tires last longer.

 

yea i notice my fronts to wear quicker than any other truck i've owned or own, so i want to stay on top of rotating to get the more even wear across all 6 tires as possible. i'm honestly thinking the easiest way is to go with the steel wheels and covers (if i want it to look better than a painted steel rim). if you end up getting covers let me know, curious to see how they look. i may go look tomorrow at some dealers that have used 450-550's for sale, some of them have wheel simulators on them so i could check them out in person. i'd probably invest in a good quality set if i go that route, i believe some are plastic and some are metal, i'd imagine the metal covers are better/will last longer.

 

Please describe rotating the tires "properly".


Over the last 20 years, Ford has not been consistent in how they recommend (or NOT recommend) dually tire rotation in the Super Duty Owner's Manuals. Between 1997 and 2017, Ford's dually tire rotation recommendations have been contradictory.


So what does "proper" dually tire rotation mean to you?

 

And I would like an honest comparison of *proper* rotation vs just swapping side to side. With real notations of real usage....empty miles, speed, ambient temps, loads hauled/mile, loads towed/mile, pin weights (if applicable), etc.
I know on the big trucks (18 wheelers) I would get north of 110,000 on a set of steer tires, and around 225,000 on a set of drive tires by just doing the side to side swap every 10,000 miles. On my '15 dually, I was starting to see visible wear on the steer tires at 20,000, and I can say the same thing on my '16 doing the side to side at 7500 mi.

 

ive considered getting semi truck type tires next go around so i can virtually have tires that last "forever"...at least they'd dry rot before wearing out.

i love the look of my bfg a/t KO2 tires, but they seem to wear rather fast, i'm learning (not sure how true it is because it's just stuff i read on forums) that they changed something for their new and current KO2 all-terrain tires vs their old tires and now they're softer, which may be good for a better ride, but on a heavy truck like my dually, they wear quicker. next tire purchase i'm going to research better and get an a/t tire (unless i go with semi truck style tires) that wear better.

the jeep guys seem to like the KO2's, but a jeep weighs a lot less so i can see why.

 

I am running Michelin XPS Tractions on all 6 wheels and rotate every 5 to 7.5K miles. I have 58K on the fronts and 52K on the rears and they should be good for about 25K more. The OEM's and first set of replacements on the front only lasted a total of 42K.

 

You asked for help, but you never answered the earlier question, which was what does rotating dually tires "properly" mean to you? Without knowing what is on your mind as to what "proper" rotation means, it is hard to "give (you) any ideas" to meet your rotation goal, or "help you figure out a solution."

A couple of times you mention a concern about costs... "without spending money each time to unmount/remount, which will get expensive" and "I can't afford them, nor will I ever really be able to fork out that amount of money for expensive aftermarket dually wheels." Yet, the two options you are considering are not cheap either. Ford wants a fortune for their aluminum wheels, which Ford probably no longer offers. Used take offs are an option, but a sketchy one. Read more about that below.

And on top of the expense of the two new or new to you aluminum wheels, you add the cost of stripping the clear coat off of all six wheels, on both sides, and then polishing both sides of each wheel, and then re clear coating them. Maybe you plan to do all this work yourself, but what is your time worth? And a really good clear coat application doesn't come in a rattle can. I see $200-$250 in professional paint materials for wheel duty, and that is assuming you already have the spray equipment and wheel stands.

On top of that, there is the wax and seal job on the wheels, another ton of time and tedium, and your plan calls for a repeat of this ritual on each tire rotation? Let's go to plan B...

Plan B calls for the purchase of 4 new steelies. At least half the cost of the aluminum wheels, but you are buying twice the number of wheels. Plus the cost of the stainless simulators. A set of four simulators runs about $400.00. You'll want the kind that have the two opposing nuts that overlay over the remaining exposed threads of the wheel studs, rather than the hubcap style. The capped nut mount style are easier to mount, easier to remove, and most importantly, they don't scratch off the factory electro deposition primer that protects the steel wheels from rusting like the snap in hubcap style simulator that mounts by pounding around the perimeter with a mallet until the spring loaded teeth dig through all the paint to claw into the steel rim.

Plus, you'd have to carry around a rubber mallet in your truck in order put the hubcap style wheel sims back on, unless you don't mind stomping them on with your shoes. And then you'll need a prybar to pop them off, adding more scratches to the bead profile of the rim, as well as new scratches when it's time to pound them on again. By contrast, the covered cap nut style simulators are just like hubcaps, but without the pounding or prying. They simply slide in place over the exposed wheel stud threads that remain after the wheels are torqued to spec, and two of the simulated cap nuts are actually real nuts that elegantly thread into place, and can be tightened with your lug wrench, or with a small, easy to store, rod handle wrench that automatically limits the torque that can be applied to the wheel simulator nuts by virtue of it's weak light duty design.

Still, expensive when you add up the four wheels plus the four simulators. And you've indicated, twice, that the goal here was to save money. Which leads back to what your other goal is... to rotate your tires... "properly".

What do you mean by "properly"?

On page 196 of the Owner's Guide for F250/350/450/550 Super Duty trucks that Ford tucked into the glove box of my truck, it says "If your vehicle is equipped with dual rear wheels, it is recommended that only the front wheels be rotated, side to side."

So if following Ford's recommendation as stated in the Owner's Guide above, then rotating the tires "properly" means leaving the rear drive axle dually pairs alone. Doing so would save you a ton of time, as well as a lot of money, and you can enjoy another set of tires for free from the savings of not having to bother with either of the two options you presented.

There are some very sound reasons for leaving the rear axle dually tire pairs alone. One of the most important reasons is safety... the prevention of blowouts due to dissimilar diameters within a pair. This can happen after a rotation, when the uneven wear of a front tire has been combined with a tire that hasn't been on the front, or isn't worn down as much. The tire that is taller, because it is less worn, takes on more of the load, as the loaded radius is naturally longer than the smaller, more worn down tire from the front axle that it is mated with after a rotation. You mentioned that you use your truck for hauling. When a single tire within a dually pair bears the majority weight intended for both tires to bear equally together, the overloaded tire can overheat, and blow out.

If the rear dually pairs are never rotated, then the wear within each pair will always be the same, as long as inflation pressures are maintained. And with duallies, having an even matched set of drive tires, with all the diameters dead even with each other, saves more money in the long run on tire expense than fussing up the pairing with wobbly worn down front tires.

Another reason for leaving the rear dually pairs alone is that drive tires serve a different function than steer tires, and tire manufacturers figured this out 90 years ago, and offer different tread characteristics that are optimized for the different functions. Almost ALL commercial truck/tractors run a different TYPE of tire on their drive axle(s) than they do on their steer axles. A steer axle tire will generally be ribbed, with a closed shoulder, for directional control and support when cornering. A drive tire will generally be lugged, and have an open shoulder tread design, for gripping and traction. On my dually, I run a different drive tire (Michelin XDS2, where the "D" stands for "Drive") than I do on the front (Continental HSR, where the "S" stands for "Steer").

Continental actually describes their HSR as an "All Position" tire, good for both drive and steer applications in general service... but also know that in that same tire carcass family, Continental offers the HDR, where you guessed it, the "D" stands for drive. Ford offers the HSR standard, and lists the HDR as an option on the drive axle in their "Traction" package, and further offers the HDR on both drive and steer axles in their "Max Traction" package. However, Ford warns in big bold print that the "Max Traction" package is not recommended for vehicles where the majority of usage is on road. In other words, having tires that are optimized for the drive axle mounted on the steer axle will result in noticeably less than optimal ride, handling, and control on pavement... in favor of increased traction when in four wheel drive OFF ROAD.

With it thus being established that steer axle tires are more advantageous for the steer axle on a daily driver, which you said your truck serves as, then why not take advantage of 100 years of tire tread technology research, and buy a pair of steer tires for your front axle, and a matched set of drive tires for your rear axle, and leave the rear axle drive tires alone, and just swap your steer tires side to side? Both aluminum wheels, which you already own, will be outside polished, and the outside hub plate surface of the rim will never come in contact with the hub itself. No buying wheels, no dorking with simulators, no scratching, scraping, stripping, scrubbing, or staring at the amount of tar spots you can't get off before you polish, paint, and pander to your wheels with wax.

But these suggestions may not be useful to you if you have a different idea about what "proper" dually tire rotation is. Hence, what does proper dually tire rotation mean to you?

 

I drove my previous F350 for 14 years and never once rotated the tires. I dropped the tire pressures all the way around the truck. I believe I was running 60-65lbs in all 6 tires even though the recommended was 70 or 80. The duals would always wear evenly at that reduced pressure.

The front tires I had trouble with major toe-out wear for the first 8 years of use. Then it dawned on me, the truck never left the driveway without at least 1000lbs of tongue weight on the hitch. The last time I had the front end aligned I mentioned what trailer I was towing and they compensated some toe-in and I never had uneven tire wear on the fronts again.

 

I have all steel wheels and swap side to side. I took my simulators off as it made it more difficult to check air pressure.

 

are you selling them, or do you have a pic with them installed by any chance?

 

I will read this post in a bit when i have time, but to answer the first part, it doesn't really mean anything to me, that's why I asked. by properly i guess i mean however Ford suggests to rotate dually tires. if "properly" meant fronts to the inside rear, inside rear to outside rear, outside rear to front, or something like that, i wouldn't have posted this thread, as i would have already had my answer on how to/the best way to rotate tires. so i cannot answer your question, because that's the whole reason i made the thread in the first place...

also, i skimmed through your post quickly before i read it in full later tonight, but i saw the part about the rears wearing the same if you just leave them. they most certainly do not wear evenly, the outer rear tires wear a lot quicker than the inner ones. ask anyone with a dually and they will say the same. now, i originally thought that the rears would wear evenly/the same myself, being that they're going the same direction/speed/etc at all times, but on turns, the outer tires have more pressure on them than the inner ones do. i noticed that after about 10k miles, my outer rears, while they were wearing evenly, were less than the inners. the inners looked and still look nearly brand new. at that rate, the outers will wear out way before the inners do if you just leave the rears alone and never rotate them, at least flip flopping them so the inners get some time riding on the outside.

lastly, even the cost of 2 alum wheels or 4 steel wheels with simulators, over the coarse of 10+ years is nothing at all (that is my fault, i didn't mention i intend to keep this truck for the long haul, so in your defense you wouldn't have known that). i do keep tools in the truck with me at all times as well, so i do have a rubber mallet with me, as i keep all my tools in the cab since it's a daily driver and a work truck. when i can afford a new(ew) truck/car for a clean daily driver, i will keep this truck for work stuff, especially if i get a new truck for a daily, so i don't have to dirty/scratch up a new truck. after all, my dually just rolled 52k miles, so i have a ton of life left in it, and even if it had more miles, i bought it with the intentions of keeping it for the long haul, at least 10+ years, if not pretty much forever. my dad has had his 01 excursion since 02/03 and it's still running like a champ, so keeping it that long isn't really unheard of, and before i know it, those 10 years will have gone by. hell, 2 years have already passed since i got it with 38k miles, and it seems like it was just yesterday! lol