Greetings all!

I need to replace the timing set on my 71 460. There's so much play in the chain, I can't believe it hasn't jumped a tooth yet.

I've been toying with the idea of timing gear drives, but I'm not sure if I'd get sick of the noise or not. My cousin has one and I must've heard a dozen other trucks with them over the weekend. I seem to recall reading that they're not rated for over 6000 RPM. Can anyone confirm this? Any other pros/cons?

If I go with a roller chain, I want the straight up timing as opposed to the 4 deg. retarded set for the later engines. Does anyone know what year I should be asking for? I can't remember if it's 72 or 74 when the changed.

Thanks in advance!

Kevin K.

 

Ask for the 68 - 71.

And so you can make sure it right, the timing mark will be dead over the key way in the crank gear.

 

Thanks superdave!

K.

 

Ok. I'm getting the timing set next week and I started to take the engine apart to change it. I have the radiator, water pump, alt., PS pump and big pully/balancer(?) removed. I can't seem to get the key out of the keyway though. Is there a trick to this?

I know I need to get the alum. timing cover thingy off and to do it, I have to remove the oil pan bolts that go into it. I don't think it's gonna be a problem though.

Is there anything else that has to come off to replace the timing set? Besides the front shaft seal and gaskets, what else should I be checking/replacing while I'm in there?

Thanks in advance.

Kevin K.

 

Kevin,

Soak the key with some good penetrant such as Pblaster. Then take a small screw driver and gently drive it under the key and it should lift out.

You are headed in the right direction on getting the timing cover off. There are two oil pan bolts on each side. Once you have the timing cover off do a very thorough job of cleaning all the gasket surfaces so that there isn’t any remaining gasket material or other crud left. I use a spray on gasket softener to help with getting the old gasket material off.

Make sure the front oil seal is seated when installed and oiled for break in. Also, it is a good idea to run a thread tap into each hole (after removing all gasket material) to make there isn’t any debris or crud in the threads.

When putting the cover back on use gasket sealer to put the small oil pan pieces on the pan and let it set up. Those small pieces may need to be trimmed a bit. Then, with the front pan seal installed in the timing cover, put a bead of sealer right at the end of each pan piece so that the union of the side pieces and the front piece has a good seal.

When you actually put the timing cover in place it is going to sit high and you will not be able to get the bolts started. Put a couple of long philips screw drivers through the cover and into the block to leverage it down. It may be a good idea to do a test run first without the sealer in the corners yet so that you can see how much you are going to need to leverage it down to get the bolts started. Having a second set of hands to help is probably necessary to start the lower bolts. Once they are started and the cover has been generally pulled into place then you can remove the leverage bars and install the water pump. Put a thin layer of sealer on each side of both the water pump gaskets. Tighten all the bolts in several passes around the cover including the water pump bolts

Good luck and ask if you need help,

Mark

 

That's all good to know. Thanks!

Kevin K.

 

Kelvin, I just freshend up my 77 460. I put the 'straight up' timing gear in.
I had a terrible time getting the engine to run. It was either timed too early or too late. The Wires wouldn't set down right, to allow the distributor to turn more than one tooth either way.
You might burn up a starting relay and possibly the starter before you get that engine to run with that 'straight up' gear. I think my mistake might have been the Cam I bought for my fresh engine.
I got a 'mild' grind with lifters and pushrods from Summit Racing.
They said it would work, but it didn't work very well. However when it did start it was quick to get a lot of RPM.
Restarting when hot is another problem I had.
That engine will run just as strong with the 8 degree retarded timing gear. So remember how you changed it, because you might want to change it back.

 

Thanks for the heads up Thud!

The timing sets I've been looking at actually have the 3 position keyways. I'm assuming that's for advanced, straight up and retarded. So, if it doesn't work, I'll change it.

Thanks again!

Kevin K.

 

The engine won't run nearly as strong with a retarded timing set as it will with the early straightup set.

If you install a new cam with new timing gear set, position the #1 cylinder at TDC of the compression stroke with the crank balancer at TDC, the distributor rotor should be pointed at the #1 plug wire in the distributor cap when you drop it in. The plug wire firing order sequence should then be followed from that #1 plug, in counter-clockwise rotation. Any deviation is going to cause problems that will try your patience.

 

George, that's all pretty straight forward as far as it goes.
However: When you drop the Dist in, the Vacuam advance cylinder has to be pointed nearly straight forward.
It has to be able to move about 3/4 of a Plug wire in either direction to allow engine timing.
With that 'straight up' timing gear (From a 69 Lincoln 460) I was never able to get the Vacuam cylinder to clear the T-stat housing, or the AC Bracket. The result is: the timing is always a little early or a little late.
I am a born skeptic about our 'street-engineering' efforts.
I'd have to see the documents from the 'Dyno' test to believe things like Headers, Straight up gear, MSD ignitons etc etc would make much of a difference, if any at all.

I had some experience with Dyno Tuning in 1957, and it was an eye-opener. I learned to disbelieve my impressions and be very confident in the Documented test results.

Kelvin, you can start and run the engine for a short time without the timing case cover on the engine. That way you can check the timeing before you put it all together.

 

I haven't used a vacuum advance ignition on my 460s in many years, but do remember that that on my earlier engines ('68-71) the distributor had to be positioned so that the #1 plug wire was in the 12:30-1:00 position when facing the engine so that the vacuum canister would clear the thermostat housing. I can't understand why the timing gear change would make any difference as theoretically and in real life you could position the distributor in any direction as long as you pointed the rotor at what would be the #1 plug wire and sequence the plug wires in the proper firing order.

 

I also learned from a tuner performance shop today that the new chain should be "soaked" in engine oil over night. There is no pressure oiling inside the case only splash. When the engine is started without pre oil soaking I was told you can lose one or two degrees through the chain streching. He said they often even heat the oil to help it soak in to the new chain.

 

I used the Edelbrock rollor timing set. It had three positions and I used the "Zero" or straight up position. You can make any position on the cap number one and put your vacuum advance can anywhere you can get it to fit as long as it has enough clearance to be able to get it set. Mine is now pointing at my passenger side headlight. That position worked out best and Number 1 is still towards the back to get the wires to reach. I'm custom building my own next time. I am around a lot of race and warm street engines and I would leave the gear drives to the diesels and straight six's where they belong.

 

Thanks George, as long as we are on this subject I'll just beat on it one more time.
But first, what have you done to get rid of the Vacuam advance?
Are you talking about a street machine?

On that ignition timing. I know about moving the wires. That's not the problem. On a 460 with A.C. the Vacuam cylinder has a limited movment. Between the T-stat housing and the A.C. bracket is a distance of one wire position (give or take a little)
So... if the dist sets down right smack on a wire position, it can rotate half a position to adjust for early or late timing/
My dist sets down in between wire positions. It's too far advanced one way and too far retarded the other way.
When I went to that straight up gear and the 'warmed up cam' from summit racing and that straight up gear, my nightmare began.
The advance curve works like it should though.
I had that Dist in that hole a dozen times. It never sat in the right place. I went over to a friends house and got his whole ignition setup. The Dist, Module and all. Still the same thing.
It's in and running, but its timed too far in advance and wont start when it's Hot.
It goes like aitch-eee-double-toothpicks when I get it lit off though.

 

It's only for the street. I run a mechanical advance distributor.

It doesn't matter where the #1 plug wire is on the distributor cap, that rotor has to point directly at it with the #1 cylinder at the top of the combustion stroke and the crank timing mark on TDC. to be in time. 14 degrees of stock advance is maybe 1/4" of distributor movement from TDC.