I'm trying to find a reasonable solution to my brakes.

The issue I'm working around is not being able to get enough vacuum from the engine with the way it's built. I've seen reservoir cans and electronic vacuums as well as things like a Hydrobooster that uses a powersteeting pump.

The Hydroboosters look like a good way to go but seem to start around $800. Ouch.

Anyone know of a good setup? Might end up using the stock pedals too if I can adjust the height. Right now my brakes consist of "none" and "skidding down the road screaming".

Thanks

 

"skidding down the road screaming" sounds like one brake, maybe two working.
Brakes on these truck work pretty darn well when they are in good condition.
I fabricated a vacuum reservoir from 4" PVC pipe and mounted it back under the bed on Blue. This was for the windshield wipers but I guess you need more inches of vacuum, not volume. There are small pumps available as most diesel vehicles need them. Ebay usually has something listed.

 

Quite possible. I adjusted them a little bit but I think they are setup to have a booster that I'm missing. They were once switched over to air brakes then back before I bought it. Haven't put too many miles on it, though it drove it needed attention to everything.


I'm not sure I'll be able to get around the having to lift my foot to use the brakes issue with this truck, so I'm going to try to keep the original pedals. Which means this issue is a lot easier to fix with the transmission out as it is currently.

I think for now I'll look more into options to help out vacuum powered ones, at least then I can get a booster made to fit under the cab. Might be issues swapping over to a Manual later.

 

many volkswagens like the passat used a supplemental vacuum pump for the power brake booster, they are all over ebay for cheap. Or grab a hydroboost setup from a 1 ton 1980s-1990s chevy truck for cheap and plumb it into your system. Just have to make up the lines and T into the pump fluid return side.

vacuum pump

http://www.ebay.com/itm/28E0927317-2...1YyN9K&vxp=mtr

 

You say this had air brakes before? That's a whole different setup. F-600's never had air brakes to my knowledge.

 

The air brakes were after market. It had about 6000 pounds on the back of the truck and half the parts of the air brakes remaining. I looked into it years ago and found I was missing a factory booster type part on mine when they swapped it back.

I think eBay might be a good idea, I'm seeing hydroboosters from newer F450s for a good price. I'll have to make a mount for them to work under the cab, but might be well worth the effort.

 

There are literally hundreds of remote mounted vacuum boosters available.
The air brake setup has my curiosity piqued. It would require different brake shoes, backing plates, and actuators like S-cam or wedge. Do you still have any of that left over?

 

Same here! I think I have a possible solution. First of all, if you want to use a non-vacuum powered booster, you'll need a power-steering pump (or other hydraulic pump)

Your (and my) master cylinder is a 1.25" piston, single circuit brake system. They then port fluid to the vac-booster (I also have a 6" x 24" steel vac tank that was mounted in the frame )

I am planning to install a double circuit system using a master cyl and booster out of a late model Ford 250/350SD pickup. I think the following is a 1.5" master cyl. It would require a hanging pedal but I think it'll be worth it.
I don't know where you get $800. That's probably what the medium duty boosters cost........

The following one is $85....I don't see why it wouldn't work. You only need a master cyl with the same or more volume capability as original, and splitting the system (front/back) will require having a proportioning valve so you don't lock the front or back prematurely.

POWER BRAKE BOOSTER HYDROBOOSTER FITS 05-10 FORD F250SD PICKUP 405058 | eBay


If your truck is like mine, you have single piston wheel-cyls in the front, and double piston (double-cyl per wheel) in the back. The back drums probably require a tad more volume than the front but they get the same pressure in a single circuit system.

So you would need to play with proportioning to get the pressures and pedal travel right. I think it's easily "doable"


Cheers,


Rick

 

.. and it just dawned on me it didn't have air brakes.

In my defense it had a mount for a compressor, a vac tank, and a gauge that read "air pressure" and the PO I thought said it was air brakes before.

So nope, just missing the booster.


The $800 ones where custom ones, hadn't stop to think about eBay at the time.


I think that booster might work for me. The 460 I'm putting in has a powersteering pump and I like the idea of hydroboosters over vacuum ones. Went ahead and bought it. I might play around with it a bit and see if I can get it to work under the floor, no reason other than a cool factor. Actually have a set of hanging pedals I'm debating to use, ha.

I'm going to have to look into proportioning the pressure on them, never stopped to think it might need that.

Thanks for the help.

 

Aww CRUD! I was going to buy it!!

All kiddn aside, Those things are on ebay all the time!

My neighbor up the street bought a used one for his street rod and it works flawlessly! (I think he put it under the floor too.....)

It should work at least as good as the OEM MC since it's only a 1.25" piston. I think I also read that somewhere around 2000 and earlier SD trucks used a 1 5/8" master cyl ....


There might have to be a proportioning valve if the piston travel applies the front before the back (or vice-versa) etc.....but I don't think that is a hard thing to make happen.

I believe disc brakes require more volume of fluid and certainly higher pressures so you'll probably want to be careful with the lever action of the pedal.

The one thing that concerns me is the rear brakes (on mine and yours I think) has double (top & bottom) brake cylinders. This might require a fair amount of fluid volume by comparison to the front brake cyls which only have 1 wheel cyl per wheel and on mine a single piston in each cyl that only pushes on the front shoe (the bottom of the shoes "float")

I don't know yet if it matters....so a little experimentation is probably in order.

 

Hey, as soon as that seller sold you yours, he put another one up on eBay so I bought one too!

I would also like to do the under-floor install using the original pedal etc.

Don't know if I have the room though. That E4OD is quite a bit wider than the original T-98.

If you ever go to the Wa Chapter meet/greets we'll have to compare notes!

Regards,

Rick

 

Air over hydraulic was a common addition back then that allowed a air brake trailer.
Since the truck has air a lot of them air assist power steering was added. Booster actuated by air instead of vac. These are in the Napa truck brake book...........

 

Sounds like a plan Rick. Maybe one of these days we should aim for a vintage meet up.

 

Put a hydroboost under the floor in mine. I put it in rotated with fittings down.
I had to cut a whole in the cross member to clear the high pressure output line which usually goes to the steering. If you don't have power steering you'll have to return that to the tank. Tried blocking it off thinking the internal pressure relief would bypass to the hydroboost return. No dice. The hole in the floor for the reservoir is right at the edge of the seat. Used a late model master that has a huge tank. Cap is above the floor level. Something to consider. The F5 stops better than my Excursion. Not sure if it's because the hydroboost is on it's own (no power steering) or the adjustable proportioning valve allowing more rear brake.

 

Do you remember how big your master cyl is? (1", 1.25" or 1.5" piston?)


Yeah. I am thinking about putting mine under the floor too! My rear transmission mount interferes slightly but I can easily remedy that! Otherwise, I'll hang a pedal

Does your F5 have dual wheel cyl brakes in the back (2 per wheel) and single cylinder wheel cyls on the front brakes?

Can you provide pictures of your installation to include the proportioning valve?

Stephen, Mine showed up yesterday and it arrived with the pedal rod broken completely off!

Seems the seller didn't package it very well. They're making it good though.....They're going to send me another one (shipped today!) and they told me to keep the one with the broken pedal rod.

I just want to make this thing work! I never liked the single circuit brake system of any of these old trucks!