Lifters
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More Turbo
Joined: Mar 2016
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Lifters
Been hearing more and more about lifter failures in the 6.0 (probably since I've proactively tried to prevent all the other failure points :-) ). Just wondering how common it actually is and what I can do to prevent it. Are most of the failures due to poor maintenance or is this another failure point of the 6.0 because of design?
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,708
Likes: 7
From: Circle City
As I see it, there's nothing wrong with the design. Those lifter failure cases are from the implementation of using the wrong spec'd. component.
The stock 6.0 OEM pushrods that are originally installed are too tall which causes the hydraulic lifters to exert excessive preload pressure on their roller bearings, compounded by actuating two valves per lifter.
This is why I think it's important to install OE 6.4 pushrods at HG R&R, these happen to be .047 shorter than 6.0 OEM pushrods. Especially after the heads are decked, as head decking contributes increased hydraulic pressure on the already stressed pre-loaded lifters, contributing that much more pressure on their needle bearings. Some have claimed the newer/shorter pushrod update doesn't matter since the lifter will automatically adjust up the lash. Some say the OEM 6.0 pushrods were too long to begin with regardless of lash pressure. At any rate, each lifter is expected to support two sets of valve springs. (16 lifters supporting 32 valves) On a diesel engine.
Currently, the 6.0 and 6.4 pushrods have the same Ford part number because of this discrepancy.
Don't know if it ever made it to become an official Ford "TSB" this late in the game.
The stock 6.0 OEM pushrods that are originally installed are too tall which causes the hydraulic lifters to exert excessive preload pressure on their roller bearings, compounded by actuating two valves per lifter.
This is why I think it's important to install OE 6.4 pushrods at HG R&R, these happen to be .047 shorter than 6.0 OEM pushrods. Especially after the heads are decked, as head decking contributes increased hydraulic pressure on the already stressed pre-loaded lifters, contributing that much more pressure on their needle bearings. Some have claimed the newer/shorter pushrod update doesn't matter since the lifter will automatically adjust up the lash. Some say the OEM 6.0 pushrods were too long to begin with regardless of lash pressure. At any rate, each lifter is expected to support two sets of valve springs. (16 lifters supporting 32 valves) On a diesel engine.
Currently, the 6.0 and 6.4 pushrods have the same Ford part number because of this discrepancy.
Don't know if it ever made it to become an official Ford "TSB" this late in the game.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,708
Likes: 7
From: Circle City
I don't know. A long standing 6.0 shop would have the skinny on that.
I do know that once my 6.0L lifters fail, it's pretty much game over.
granted, this is should be considered "normal wear" for a half-mega mile duty cycle.
If you don't get a chance to watch this whole video, just view it from 6:47 -7:12 (for a more detailed, technical explanation).
I do know that once my 6.0L lifters fail, it's pretty much game over.
If you don't get a chance to watch this whole video, just view it from 6:47 -7:12 (for a more detailed, technical explanation).
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More Turbo
Joined: Mar 2016
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So you can't replace the rear lifters when doing a head gasket job without pulling the rear cover? How much labor does that add if the engine is pulled anyway?
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Circle City
How much labor does it add, you ask? All of it!
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More Turbo
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I guess I'm missing something. If the engine is pulled to do headgaskets, heads are off. You can easily replace the front lifters correct? But the rear lifters involve more disassembly. I'm asking how much and how many hours labor basically just to do the lifters beyond what's involved for the heads. No failure, just replace them as a wear item.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,708
Likes: 7
From: Circle City
I wouldn't think a guy would be charged any "hours" added to a HG job if you want to replace the lifters. You're just not going to be able to all of them.
Otherwise, they're right there and easily accessible. Just pay for the new parts. Shop time for HG job is big enough and the 10 minutes it takes to change them out isn't going to make or break the job.
Besides, a good shop should automatically pull the "accessible" lifters and give them a once over just in case there is a problem.
If you ask for new ones, I'm sure they'd sell you new parts. Personally, I would let 'em ride if there's nothing wrong with them.
Otherwise, they're right there and easily accessible. Just pay for the new parts. Shop time for HG job is big enough and the 10 minutes it takes to change them out isn't going to make or break the job.
Besides, a good shop should automatically pull the "accessible" lifters and give them a once over just in case there is a problem.
If you ask for new ones, I'm sure they'd sell you new parts. Personally, I would let 'em ride if there's nothing wrong with them.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27,307
Likes: 549
From: Spanaway
You can't get at the back lifters with the branch tube in place.
To remove the branch tube you have to pull the rear cover.
That said we have a shop in town that is rated very good. His policy
is that if he is at a point where the rear cover is exposed and the heads
are off he will do lifters if the engine has more than 200K on it.
I think if I were down to the point where I had the heads off and
the trans out I would pull the rear cover and replace the lifters
and add a new style set of push rods.
The only thing I question is new lifters on a used cam. It used to be
that you worked very hard to get each lifter back where it came from
do to wear patterns on the cam and lifter. But that was back in time
when we did not have the roller cams and lifters in use.
To remove the branch tube you have to pull the rear cover.
That said we have a shop in town that is rated very good. His policy
is that if he is at a point where the rear cover is exposed and the heads
are off he will do lifters if the engine has more than 200K on it.
I think if I were down to the point where I had the heads off and
the trans out I would pull the rear cover and replace the lifters
and add a new style set of push rods.
The only thing I question is new lifters on a used cam. It used to be
that you worked very hard to get each lifter back where it came from
do to wear patterns on the cam and lifter. But that was back in time
when we did not have the roller cams and lifters in use.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,348
Likes: 110
From: Lakeland, Fl
I don't know. A long standing 6.0 shop would have the skinny on that.
I do know that once my 6.0L lifters fail, it's pretty much game over.
granted, this is should be considered "normal wear" for a half-mega mile duty cycle.
If you don't get a chance to watch this whole video, just view it from 6:47 -7:12 (for a more detailed, technical explanation).
I do know that once my 6.0L lifters fail, it's pretty much game over.
granted, this is should be considered "normal wear" for a half-mega mile duty cycle.
If you don't get a chance to watch this whole video, just view it from 6:47 -7:12 (for a more detailed, technical explanation).
I would be very surprised if Bill's engine stayed together for 6 months if he didn't pull it all the way down and clean the metal out. Hard to believe he left that video up, it's hardcore shade tree.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,708
Likes: 7
From: Circle City
I noticed that too, as he's getting some hours in that engine.
I was supposing he was just playing with it for videos sake.
There comes a time when you just have to fold, and IMHO this is one of them, I see just a core, but then again I see his point that the screen caught the debris.
I'd throw in the towel on this one, especially at 203k mi. as it's a complete overhaul at this point.
I was supposing he was just playing with it for videos sake.
There comes a time when you just have to fold, and IMHO this is one of them, I see just a core, but then again I see his point that the screen caught the debris.
I'd throw in the towel on this one, especially at 203k mi. as it's a complete overhaul at this point.