And that's fine, but how much is 4 degrees of retard worth versus not running stoich with E-10?

 

It's hard to say what it's worth, because 4 degrees means "more" at peak torque (3200 rpm), than it does at peak hp(4200rpm).

I would have to ask how we know 4 degrees is the max retard due to knock. I'm NOT a expert with the ford pcm but my guess wold be 4 degrees for each knock count. So if the pcm saw say a 2 knock count it would retard 8 degrees. I really am ignorant on this issue.

I do know that high IAT readings will retard motor too.

Personally I would prefer no knock counts at all. Knock just retards timing and reduced power which requires more gas peddle, which increases knock and so on. A viscous circle.

I do agree if everything is working right the motor should not knock. I can push 6 psi boost at 2500 rpm in closed loop and not have any knock. Above that at 10 psi and open loop I supliment with methanol so I have 0 knock. AFR 11.2 in open loop with methanol injection.

If it were me I would:
1) make sure injectors are in good shape
2) make sure fuel pump has proper pressure
3) make sure fuel pressure regulator is working correctly.
4) find a non E-10 fuel
5) reprogram PCM for E-10

I would do the above in order, testing after each is completed to see if knock still present.

Now it could be there is a real knock too and not detonation. When I was tuning my supercharger I found a knock a above 2500 rpm. It turned out to be a bad #1 rod bearing. It did not knock at lower rpm, just above 2500 or so. Once I fixed it knock went away.
My gut says that low fuel pressure or poor injectors may be culprit.

On a side note I believe high load detention is a sign of a motor that still has good compression. Congrats!

 

Granted I grow the stuff so I might be slightly biased towards ethanol lol, generally I found that running E10 87 in my old trucks vs straight gas I can push the timing slightly higher without pinging? That said I will admit ethanol mixed gas sucks in small engines that sit for any length of time!!!!!

Just to clarify again.
2000 F250 V10
Pings under steady hevy load
Cat dealt with previously
Vacuum leaks not detected
MAF cleaned
MAF wire grommet reinstalled into the air filter after prolonged dirt ingestion
Exhaust and all shields checked and fixed for rattles
No check engine or any codes present
And as I was typing that the O2 sensors have been replaced it hit me that dad mentioned something about the plugs needing to be modified when he installed them????? Something about breaking off a tab to make them fit into the plug??? Wonder if the 02 sensors are incorrect for his truck but not setting a code? Is that possible? I haven't had my scanner on it since he change them and we fixed a bunch of other issues at the time.

I will be planting corn like a madman for the next couple of weeks so any updates will be delayed for a while, kind of curious as to what my scanner says now.

 

Yah, don't interpret my dislike like for E-10 for not loving ethanol. It's the best fuel I know of and is cheap, high octane, loves high compression.

If today's motors had higher compression, E-85 would be my fuel of choice for my DD.

I boost to 22 psi with E-85 on my Eagle Talon, and ran it in my 552 cid Ford big block at 14:1 compression. That motor broke more drivetrain parts than anything.

 

This isn't terribly uncommon with aftermarket sensors. As long as the wires are in the same order, colors match on both sides of the connector, you should be fine. If they were out of order I'm pretty sure you'd get a fault code.

 

Also, remember the OBD-I V10 doesn't set codes for a lot of things.

There's a sticky here in the V10 forum, one of the articles is my dissertation on the check engine light.

 

I Learned the hard way with my 99 Mustang about how the OBD-I works and scan for codes before the check engine light is displayed now.

I just nead a day now to only digest the live data from the scanner and do some tests with the fuel pressure and what not, these trucks are actually still pretty simple if you have the time to diagnose and think about it.

 

OBD-1 ?!? Interesting, never knew that. Does this mean it won't detect and identify cylinder misfires like obd-2 vehicles do?

I don't see the sticky, would you point the way for me?

 

Oops, found it. Very interesting. I've never had my scanner connected to the truck because it's never had a fault code. Now I'll have to plug in and see what I can see.

 

It will detect and count misfires, but it won't set a code for them. You have to directly read the PIDs for the misfire counters.

The whole "OBD-II" thing is a misnomer. OBD-I and II are the emissions specifications.

The actual connection you use to talk to the PCM is not "OBD-II" - it's SAE J1962

So you can use SAE J1962 to talk to an "OBD-I" vehicle

Look under the hood at the emissions sticker. Bet it says OBD-I

 

OBD-2. Seems to be a California thing from what I've been reading, every one I've seen that's Ca certified is obd2. I plugged my scanner in and it shows the system monitors as I'm accustomed to seeing with cars; catalyst, O2s, EGR, evap, misfire, etc.

I'll take a spin later and see what it takes to go into OL and try to read the O2 outputs to see if it enriches. Never tried before, but I assume I should be able to see a change in AF mix from the stock sensors.

 

A while back, it was discussed on here how the V10 stays in closed loop for a LONG TIME until it reaches some threshold. So don't be surprised if it doesn't go OL without a heavy load and a huge hill/mountain climb

 

I towed my boat to the truck scale today, been curious. So pulling just shy of 13,000 I never saw OL. O2 readings bounced around about normal the whole time (.3-.8 give or take) even with a WOT run of about 20-30 seconds.

 

I would consider something wrong if you are at WOT for 20 or 30 seconds and still in closed loop.

I would worry that a 14.7ish afr at WOT for that long would be a lean condition.

Mine goes into OL much sooner. Is it possible O2 sensors still oscillate but computer ignores the reading?

I am going to contact my tuner lasota racing on this issue. He is an expert with the ford pcm. If anyone can confirm this it will be him.

If this is true it's no wonder pinging is an issue.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...open-loop.html

Post # 4 and 5. But also post # 2 for a good reason to keep in closed loop.

For almost 20 years, the V10 has been around, it's been a MAF system. There's almost NO reason to go open loop. Ever.

Nor is there a reason for the V10 to ping when everything is 100% OK.

On Edit: Johnny Langton is no longer with us. A teenager texting coming the opposite way crossed over the line and had a head-on collision with him.