no power
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 922
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
If you are looking at the front end of the truck with the hood open, the ICP will be sticking into the passenger side valve cover to your left, motor right. It will be toward the front of the valve cover. Simply unplug it and attempt to start the truck for a short drive to see what happens.
Go with your gut on mechanics. But, like I said, try to see what parts they will use too because that could affect cost. You don't want to pay $1500 to one guy to then have to pay $2400 to another to fix the first guy's mistakes.
Go with your gut on mechanics. But, like I said, try to see what parts they will use too because that could affect cost. You don't want to pay $1500 to one guy to then have to pay $2400 to another to fix the first guy's mistakes.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,881
Likes: 3,595
As suggested, certainly try it w/ the ICP disconnected. It would still be good to see the requested ICP pressure, ICP volts, ICP desired, and IPR percentages: KOEO, when cranking, and when the vehicle is acting up - IF POSSIBLE.
Also, if ICP disconnect doesn't help, you or your mechanic should do an air test before condemning the HPOP, etc. I assume that you have an 05 Ex with a late 04 engine. Not sure that the Nov 04 date excludes it from being an 05 engine, but it probably does.
Can you could ask the shop that did all the previous work to confirm that it is a late 04 engine. This would be helpful because the 05 HPOP's were pretty reliable.
We have an FTE forum member that has a shop on upstate New York (I can't exactly remember where though). His name is Andy (Forum name Sarge261). He might be close enough to help (not sure where you are either, Ithaca, NY I assume). He is an honest and knowledgeable guy.
Oh, and if you haven't already, it might be wise to unload any tunes (return to stock) for future troubleshooting.
Also, if ICP disconnect doesn't help, you or your mechanic should do an air test before condemning the HPOP, etc. I assume that you have an 05 Ex with a late 04 engine. Not sure that the Nov 04 date excludes it from being an 05 engine, but it probably does.
Can you could ask the shop that did all the previous work to confirm that it is a late 04 engine. This would be helpful because the 05 HPOP's were pretty reliable.
We have an FTE forum member that has a shop on upstate New York (I can't exactly remember where though). His name is Andy (Forum name Sarge261). He might be close enough to help (not sure where you are either, Ithaca, NY I assume). He is an honest and knowledgeable guy.
Oh, and if you haven't already, it might be wise to unload any tunes (return to stock) for future troubleshooting.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 889
Likes: 1
From: Ithaca
Thanks for the response! Haven't run the tune in a while. I am constantly towing something and I really don't like how it shifts with the tunes.
Will try disconnecting the ICP and run it like that see what happens.
Will talk to mechanic and ask him about air test.
Yes Im in Ithaca NY. Kind of between Binghamton Syracuse and Rochester.
Thanks again!
Will try disconnecting the ICP and run it like that see what happens.
Will talk to mechanic and ask him about air test.
Yes Im in Ithaca NY. Kind of between Binghamton Syracuse and Rochester.
Thanks again!
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 889
Likes: 1
From: Ithaca
Question I have a Bulletproof remote oil cooler on my truck. Does that mean a air test cannot be performed on it? Read a little about it and it seems you would listen for air thru the oil filter. Thanks.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,881
Likes: 3,595
I am not real familiar with their product details, but I remember the research that they were doing in the old days. IIRC they kept the flow path through the components essentially the same (LPOP to oil cooler, then to oil filter, and then to the HPOP reservoir and lubrication points), so I don't know why it wouldn't work.
Anyway, you could always call them and ask. They are extremely helpful over the phone.
Anyway, you could always call them and ask. They are extremely helpful over the phone.
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 889
Likes: 1
From: Ithaca
I am not real familiar with their product details, but I remember the research that they were doing in the old days. IIRC they kept the flow path through the components essentially the same (LPOP to oil cooler, then to oil filter, and then to the HPOP reservoir and lubrication points), so I don't know why it wouldn't work.
Anyway, you could always call them and ask. They are extremely helpful over the phone.
Anyway, you could always call them and ask. They are extremely helpful over the phone.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 922
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
Make sure the ICP value you are checking is actual PSI versus desired. Desired is what the truck (PCM) wants to see. Some people have watched the desired ICP and believed they're getting a good reading. I monitor "desired", "actual", and "volts" for ICP because they are supposed to all three be in line with one another. When one is off then you know there is a problem and can go from there.
I watched a video about an oil cooler replacement and they stated the oil flow is the same for a remote oil cooler set up. You still can do the air test with the oil filter lid removed to listen for gurgling.
I watched a video about an oil cooler replacement and they stated the oil flow is the same for a remote oil cooler set up. You still can do the air test with the oil filter lid removed to listen for gurgling.
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 14
From: The Land Of Time
Sadly I am not close enough to you to be of any help.
Do what's been suggested here so far.
The big thing would be doing the air test. You're not necessarily listening for a leak in the oil filter rather the system. Can you see the date code of the engine on the passenger side valve cover. Its either a red or blue decal on the cover with all the Navistar specs and will tell us when the engine is built. I suspect that you will have a late 04 motor and not an 05 so the HPOP could possibly be bad. But like the others have stated its an expensive part to just throw at the problem not knowing the health of the entire system.
Sarge
Do what's been suggested here so far.
The big thing would be doing the air test. You're not necessarily listening for a leak in the oil filter rather the system. Can you see the date code of the engine on the passenger side valve cover. Its either a red or blue decal on the cover with all the Navistar specs and will tell us when the engine is built. I suspect that you will have a late 04 motor and not an 05 so the HPOP could possibly be bad. But like the others have stated its an expensive part to just throw at the problem not knowing the health of the entire system.
Sarge
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 889
Likes: 1
From: Ithaca
Pretty sure it is a 11/04 date I will check again and make sure that is correct. I and not about to throw a HPOP at it unless 100% that is the problem. I might replace the ICP sensor and check the pigtail. but first thing Im gonna do is next time it doesnt start will unplug icp sensor. Thanks!!
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 6,545
Likes: 13
From: Virginia Beach VA
ICPV is actual pressure ICP is desired, IPR% is the reply to the requested (ICP) pressure.
But the sensor needs to be plugged in or you get defaulted values, should be ICP 785 at idle and 1600-1650 when starting, if unplugged. It will give the required amount to make the truck run.... unless the pump can't actually make the pressure and why it's a good test to just unplug the sensor and see if it will start. If it can, it will and if not.... the air test will reveal a bad pump or a bad leak.
But the sensor needs to be plugged in or you get defaulted values, should be ICP 785 at idle and 1600-1650 when starting, if unplugged. It will give the required amount to make the truck run.... unless the pump can't actually make the pressure and why it's a good test to just unplug the sensor and see if it will start. If it can, it will and if not.... the air test will reveal a bad pump or a bad leak.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 889
Likes: 1
From: Ithaca
Truck has started every time since Ive had it checked out. ICP Pressure is 585 at idle then goes up as you step on accelerator over 3000 at times. icp volts at idle is 0.85 then goes up to 1.something IPR % 30 at idle.