Thank you. That was a very satisfying read.

Here's a guy who specifically used the 250/2500 platform (in addition to all of his coworkers) to be 'legal' pulling bigger trailers because a bigger truck with a monster trailer would put him over 26,000 GCVW. (In other words, say you have a 15,000# 5ver and a 3/4 ton truck (10,000# GVWR). By this guy's thinking, he is 'legal' because his GCVW is not over 26,000# despite the fact that the 10,000# truck is over it's payload capacity. And he claims to not need a CDL... which makes me wonder if he is subject to the same 'laws' (that I can't find anywhere on the Internet) as me?

What I'm left not understanding is, how can it then be 'legal' with a monster DRW that has a 14,000# GVWR (= 29,000# GCVR)? Now I'm really confused about what is 'legal.' Not that I really 'care' because I've yet to be shown any law about what I, as a non-commercial operator am or am not permitted to tow.

There's a ton of stuff to digest in that thread and sadly he hasn't posted for about 2 years. I'm sure I don't understand it all, but for the reason you posted it Super-Truck, it's an awesome read for me. Thank you. Clearly, he doesn't seem to have any problem towing anything with his 250/2500 and seems to prefer his 250 to his 2500 so both are good.

I think he's an excellent example for people who think other peoples' children are at risk when somebody pulls a 15k 5ver with an F250.

 

The frames were slightly different on the 2011-2016 models. I believe there is no difference on the 2017 models. Based upon the 14k GVWR, the commercial tires are overkill (you would exceed payload capacity of the truck long before the tire weight capacity), but I like the larger brakes and turning radius.

But before people keep going crazy on the turning radius, keep in mind the 450 still requires only 2.6 less feet curb to curb than the most popular configuration, CCSB truck. Yes...much better than a longbed SRW or dually 350 truck though. But still, the 450 is a battleship to turn around.

 

Difference between a 350DRW and 450:

-450 has the wide-track front axle (same axle though, Dana Super 60)
-450 has larger rear axle half-shafts with 4 more splines (same axle though, Dana M300)
-450 uses 19.5" forged rims w/ 110psi tires (350 uses 17" forged rims w/ 80psi tires)
-450 has larger brake rotors and calipers. The 350 DRW would use the same but is limited by 17" rim size. Both duallys are hydroboost.

That's it. Both use identical rear leaf springs and dually fenders (which are plastic). The larger brake rotors and calipers, larger rim size, heavier tires, extended-width front axle, and front fender flares account for the weight difference. There's nothing else magical about the weight difference.

Continental HSR tires comes on the 450. They weigh 63lbs a piece. Michelin LTX AT2 tires come on the 350 dually. They weigh 47lbs a piece. That 16lb difference, multiplied by 6, is 96lbs by itself.

 

Thank you for this!

 

The front foot or so is different - at least the ones that I looked at side by side were.

 

Great post. Steel weighs 490 pounds per cubic foot. 12"x12"x12". Not a large volume to get to 500#. The weight difference alone from aluminum wheels to steel wheels x6 would eat up a lot of that in addition to what's mentioned above.

 

The 350 and 450 both use forged aluminum rims for the 4 outboard tires and standard steel rims for the inboard rear wheels. So the weight difference is simply due to the larger diameter 450 rims.

Aside from the 100 lbs of extra tire weight, the other weight is probably the front axle extensions, the larger rotors and calipers, and the rear axle shafts. But I'd bet the bulk of it is the front axle.

 

I ended up converting my 2017 F-250 with a 3.73 gear ratio and 6.2L gas eng to a DRW. I was making a repo truck and have upgraded suspension and installed a dually rear axel from a 2018 F-350. Now that install is complete. Truck will not pass 20 mph and traction control light comes on when accelerating. Taking some time to research before I jump back into it. Not sure if it’s the ABS module or a faulty traction control rear sensor.