I have a 76 Highboy that has a 410 FE in it and I really need some help with getting it timed correctly.

Last summer I did a ton of work to the motor trying to get it up and running. I put a new Edelbrock intake, New Holley carb with 1" aluminum spacer, aluminum radiator, water pump, thermostat, 3G swap, Mark VIII electric fan, New flamethrower coil, plugs and 8mm wires, Sanderson headers and several other small things like vacuum and fuel hose.

When I pulled the distributor I made sure to mark it several ways so it would go back in correctly. I am sure I got it right for how the motor was set up before but after the modifications it isn't quite right. It ran great at idle and would shoot flames out of the headers after you got on it. But when you would put it in gear and the engine was under a load it would bog down and not really run right. Me and a buddy tried turning the dizzy and it started to idle better but we can't turn it any further because the vac advance hits the manifold. I know the timing is the issue and that I'll have to pull the dizzy. I have tried to do as much research on it as possible but still don't feel 100% confident in getting it right.

I know there are a ton of threads on this but I am hoping for a run down and step by step instructions specific to my application. I have to move the truck from my house because my lease is about to be up. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

 

Remove #1 plug and determine with certainty TDC for piston on compression stroke. Roll motor over with a breaker bar on the damper. Pointer should indicate "0" on damper. Observe where tip of distributor rotor lines up with cap off. It should point just shy of the #1 tower location on the cap, (or where it would be if the cap was installed.)

You're just "a tooth off" is all, when you stabbed the distributor into the engine. That's why you run out of room to set the base timing. The helical gear on the dizzy shaft means you have to lead it pretty good to get it to line up correctly when it's fully seated.

As a practical matter this is why you'll see "previous owner" rigs with the wiring at the distributor cap off from factory. The distributor doesn't care, so long as the firing order is correct it will run fine. You can move all the wires on the distributor cap over one iteration (probably CCW) to compensate for the error and get it to run right i.e. be able to set the timing, without having to remove the distributor, if you're in a pinch.

 

So how did it become a 410? what did you do?

 

410 = Standard equipment in 1966/67 Mercury Parklane.

 

Thanks Tedster that exactly what I was looking for. I had a feeling that's maybe what happened and why it ran fine before but not after. So you're saying instead of pulling the dizzy out I can just adjust where the wires are on the cap to one place over as long as the firing order is correct. And what should my base and total timing be for a mild 410?

 

It became a 410 when it came out of a 66 Mercury Park Lane. And then it definitely became a 410 when I measured the stroke.
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Hey I never heard of a 410 that's all, that's why I asked.

 

You can, and it will work fine but it can be confusing for maintenance later on. One typical mistake is stabbing the distributor at TDC... but on the exhaust stroke. Oops.

So the quick "fix" is then installing the spark plug wires at the distributor 180° out, then all is right in the world again.

Except, when somebody else ever tries to time the engine with a light, say. The #1 cylinder wire ain't the #1 cylinder no more. So... when he puts a timing light on the #1 spark plug wire... he gets confused. Ask me how I know.

I would take the time to get the distributor installed correctly, then the timing marks will be accurate. Line everything up at TDC compression stroke #1. Look at where the rotor points right now. Most likely it is pointing at whatever # is next in the firing order after #1. You prolly need to "back it up" 1. Pull the distributor out and finagle it and the rotor shaft with enough windage or lead so it finally ends up one click farther over than before, CCW most likely. Make sure distributor is seated all the way and not hung up on something and feels right. Don't force it, it will just drop right in at the magic moment.

If it's taking too long and starting to feel like a career sometimes you can roll the crankshaft clockwise just a smidge... and try again. When it's finally stabbed correctly can make a mark with a scribe or sharpie or just eyeball it for future reference. On my Y block the rotor point ends up exactly parallel with one of the snap clips that holds the cap on. So long as #1 is at TDC compression, and the rotor is pointing there, it will fire right up and idle nice. It helps to have an assistant who might need to advance or retard the distributor during that first crank to start, an engine won't idle well till the timing is in the ballpark. Be careful of backfire, don't flood it out or roast your starter.

Another scribe line is useful so you can set the distributor itself where it needs to be timing wise once that's sorted out. Ignition Timing itself is a whole nother subject, for now get distributor squared away and set it at 12° BTDC w/ vac disconnected and plugged and see how it runs. You'll want a tach, and a mechanics vacuum gauge to tune and diagnose how things are running. Always disconnect and plug the vacuum advance port when setting timing and setting up distributor advance up to around 3000 RPM.

 

What does the timing light tell you? As a guess, with near stock cam, your engine will like 12 degrees initial advance and 34 degrees total advance at 2500-3000 RPM. A hotter cam will want more initial and about the same total advance. All measured with vacuum advance disconnected and plugged.

Agree it is a good idea to check TDC timing marks first. The basic process is to install a positive stop in #1 spark plug hole which blocks the piston. Roll the engine by hand until it hits the stop and mark the damper. Roll the other way and mark again. Halfway in between the two marks is "true" TDC.

If you need to move the distributor a tooth or index the sparkplug leads to get the right timing, then have at it!

 

When I pull a distributor, I make a mark where the rotor is pointing before pulling it out. Once it comes out, I make another mark where the rotor ended up. Then when I reinstall it, I turn the rotor to that second mark, and verify that it's pointing at the first mark when it drops down into place.
One improvised trick I use to get them to drop that last step and engage the oil pump driveshaft is to put the car in maybe third or fourth gear, if it's a manual, and then if the dizzy doesn't drop that final step, I'll push the car with my knees on the bumper, and then maybe pull back on the radiator support if the push didn't get it. That often works. Trucks and old cars afford you the luxury of being able to grab and turn the crankshaft pulley.

 

I snapped a little too quickly on that. Its just ive had so many people jump to tell me its not a 410, its a 360 or 390. I get that people lie and say it is one but i know for a fact that mine is a stock 410 from a 66 Mercury Park Lane. It is a torque monster and i have verified the stroke 4 times just to be sure

 

Thanks to everyone for the info guys this is exactly what i was hoping for. I agree Tedster that i need to get the dizzy correctly installed and that will surely happen as soon as i can free up some time and money to get my highboy back on the road. The only reason i asked about moving the wires is because i need to be able to start and drive it atleast to get it on my trailer so i can get it to my new house. Like i said my lease is about to be up and i have to get it out of the yard. Doesnt need to be road ready yet just need to drive because i dont have a winch on my trailer yet.

Ive got a vacuum gauge and a timing light so when i mess with it in the next couple days ill let you know of my readings and where it was. Its gonna be raining for a couple days and i dont have a garage so i have to find a good time to do it

Thanks again for the advice guys its been a huge help

 

So I've got somewhat of an update on my timing situation.

So I when I tried to reinstall the dizzy to the right tooth I pulled up the oil pump driveshaft with it. Now I'm not sure what to do since I don't want to drop it down into the pan. And I know I'm at TDC but not sure if it's on the exhaust or compression stroke. How can I tell the difference? Is it if it pushes air out of the spark plug hole?

​​​​​The bad part of the update is I just found out instead of the ultra black gasket maker I somehow bought black adhesive sealant instead. And of course this past summer I did the whole manifold seal with it and the headers as well. So now I have to redo all that. I didn't really want to but I think I am going to pull the motor out. I want to reseal, flush freeze plugs in block, and paint the whole motor and I can put it on a stand in my buddy's garage to do it.

So the shift of my timing needs is to start over with timing and stabbing the distributor from scratch after I reinstall the intake. Do I follow the same procedures if I don't have any marks for the distributor? Just find TDC on number one cylinder and make sure the rotor is pointing to number one wire?

 

I didn't want to mention that... and jinx anything.. I figured you were in a hurry so you'd probably just move the wires around instead anyway. Yes, as you turn the crank stuff a finger in the spark plug hole and you can tell compression right away..

 

You can pull a valve cover to tell compression vs exhaust. At TDC on the compression stroke, both valves for #1 will be closed.