351 upgrades
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I just completed a step-by-step build on my newly acquired 97 reg cab 2wd 351, and I built it the way I wanted this time, vs times past, because I wasn't forced into a build (needing a rebuild at the wrong times) while I was deep into other huge projects. With a budget of 2-3k, it goes a looong way on these. My other build is a junkyard build in my sig, ported gt40p's and ported stock intake, long tubes, etc...it does great for what it is, crispy throttle with enough torque to move military 37's and 4.10's with ease. But...
I scoured craigslist for afr 165 or 185's, found a set of 165 with 1.72 scorpion rockers for 950. I wanted to keep the stock cam, because when this bottom end is no good, i'll go 408, and Ill go a little bigger than the crane 444211 that I would put into a 351. on they went, everything else bone stock, even exhaust mani's and cats. Used 0.030 mls gasket, with ~58cc chamber after milling for low-mid 10:1 C/R. it was night and day difference. Next went long tubes and hi-flow cat, 3" single...night and day difference again...super crispy throttle and gobs more power.
Then I was apprehensive about the intake, torn between the 351 lower/5.0 upper hybrid, a car intake, 302 to 351 intake adapters, or the eddy truck intake. I pulled the trigger on the eddy truck intake, which was a relatively hard $750 pill to swallow, but I wanted all power to be off idle anyway so it seemed like the best choice. It was worth every penny, gains across the board even sub 2,000 rpm super light pedal acceleration. no problem accelerating up a hill at 45 mph in od, barely touching the throttle.
moral of the story, there is mountain sized room for improvement on these things. its an absolute blast to drive, little truck with 4.10's and stock tires...might not be over 300hp but the way it makes power is very pleasing, wouldn't surprise me if it was 400lb/ft and it rips when I mash it.
I haven't gotten my wideband and fuel press gauges hooked up yet, its next on the list, i will have more work to do after that...i was leaning out in the upper rpm range with my gt40p build and other less-than-optimal parts. i have no tach either, so I'm not going to be able to really know how its running until i get one.
food for thought, you can go with gt40/gt40p with a torquey cam like crane 444211 and it will be a huge improvement for a modest budget, or you can open up the budget and every dollar will get you even more.
I scoured craigslist for afr 165 or 185's, found a set of 165 with 1.72 scorpion rockers for 950. I wanted to keep the stock cam, because when this bottom end is no good, i'll go 408, and Ill go a little bigger than the crane 444211 that I would put into a 351. on they went, everything else bone stock, even exhaust mani's and cats. Used 0.030 mls gasket, with ~58cc chamber after milling for low-mid 10:1 C/R. it was night and day difference. Next went long tubes and hi-flow cat, 3" single...night and day difference again...super crispy throttle and gobs more power.
Then I was apprehensive about the intake, torn between the 351 lower/5.0 upper hybrid, a car intake, 302 to 351 intake adapters, or the eddy truck intake. I pulled the trigger on the eddy truck intake, which was a relatively hard $750 pill to swallow, but I wanted all power to be off idle anyway so it seemed like the best choice. It was worth every penny, gains across the board even sub 2,000 rpm super light pedal acceleration. no problem accelerating up a hill at 45 mph in od, barely touching the throttle.
moral of the story, there is mountain sized room for improvement on these things. its an absolute blast to drive, little truck with 4.10's and stock tires...might not be over 300hp but the way it makes power is very pleasing, wouldn't surprise me if it was 400lb/ft and it rips when I mash it.
I haven't gotten my wideband and fuel press gauges hooked up yet, its next on the list, i will have more work to do after that...i was leaning out in the upper rpm range with my gt40p build and other less-than-optimal parts. i have no tach either, so I'm not going to be able to really know how its running until i get one.
food for thought, you can go with gt40/gt40p with a torquey cam like crane 444211 and it will be a huge improvement for a modest budget, or you can open up the budget and every dollar will get you even more.
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2011
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Yes, you can use stock intake and have great drivability characteristics. I'd still port the lower, it's awful...but otherwise it's not a huge restriction until mid range rpm.
If you're not prepared to deal with fueling, either maf conversion and a tune or tweaking the speed density system, you're best bet is sticking with gt40/p and long tubes anyway.
If you're not prepared to deal with fueling, either maf conversion and a tune or tweaking the speed density system, you're best bet is sticking with gt40/p and long tubes anyway.
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For now money wise AND the fact i will need to pull my trailer again ill look into porting the intake and getting the gt40 heads. Non P heads reman off ebay are like 600 shipped. No core i cant hardly find my current e7... heads for any cheaper remaned. So its a simple upgrade to at least get the gt40 heads for the same price. What is the gain from gt40 heads if i did nothing but bolt them on use unported intake and leave rockers alone? I know no one knows hard fact figures just curious
Lead Driver
Joined: May 2011
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You'll want the 1.7s, it's a cheap upgrade for what they are. Your gains will be solid until 4000-4500 rpm where it'll start to die down, if you don't mind running 93...you should think about adding compression with that setup.
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I would like gains to 4000-4500 i have the 5 speed manual. Usually i am shifting by about 4000-4500 anyways. I will have to look into everything, sad thing is that this was not suppose to happen yet, so though i have a budget not as much as i wish. The engine was suppose to last 3 years + before i tore it apart save the 3 year warranty well it broke they wont cover anything may as well start now. It looks like heads and the 1.7 roller rockers will be my cheapest performance option atm sad i can get reman gt40 heads same price as stock. Then save for a new lower and better cam that can run with the limited valve springs though.
Will i need new push-rods for the motor with the gt40 heads? I see SOME people saying they did
Will i need new push-rods for the motor with the gt40 heads? I see SOME people saying they did
Lead Driver
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Believe me, I know all about that...when I referenced the 89 build in my sig, I was in the middle of my fj resto/build when the 302 seized. I didn't have the time or the money to do what I wanted and didn't want my truck to be a sitter, but the ported gt40ps are a solid torquey setup.
Pushrods are hit or miss, if the heads have been decked, you use 1.7 rockers, or a thinner head gasket. Any of those singularly can change pushrod length....together it's more likely than not. You can only determine length after heads are bolted down. You can also get rocker shims, assuming the pushrods are too long...but even they will require a competent measurement of pushrod length to determine shim thickness. Pushrod length checkers are cheap.
Pushrods are hit or miss, if the heads have been decked, you use 1.7 rockers, or a thinner head gasket. Any of those singularly can change pushrod length....together it's more likely than not. You can only determine length after heads are bolted down. You can also get rocker shims, assuming the pushrods are too long...but even they will require a competent measurement of pushrod length to determine shim thickness. Pushrod length checkers are cheap.
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I see thats the least of my issues. Obv, the truck will go together but there will always be the extra stuff like needing push rods. I realize no matter how much "easier" it really would be for stock heads again. It will cost more for the GT40's BUT whats another 200-300 as an upgrade that works when you are already needing to spend 500-600 anyways just to fix it period
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-289-302...5JIiJw&vxp=mtr
^ these heads for around 900-1000 bucks id have NEW heads and all new upper with push rods....I think its start time to just save the extra money and try them
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-289-302...5JIiJw&vxp=mtr
^ these heads for around 900-1000 bucks id have NEW heads and all new upper with push rods....I think its start time to just save the extra money and try them
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Laramie, WY
Keep your eyes peeled. I picked up reman'd GT40P heads on ebay, $335 shipped. Added better springs & seals myself. GT40 heads save you some header headaches. The combustion chambers are bigger (bad) and the flow isn't as good (bad) but I don't think either is a deal breaker for GT40 over GT40P heads.
Those heads you linked to are Chinese castings. I thought about them a while but figured cast iron would last longer. Maybe they're a great deal, I really don't know, but do your homework.
My 96' has: stock bottom end, GT40P heads, Crane 1.7:1 roller rockers, stock roller cam, 5.0L truck upper/ported 5.8L truck lower intake, long tube headers. It's a joy to drive for what you describe and I have 33" tires and 3.55:1 gearing, not to mention I live and drive at high altitude. As stated, it kind of flat lines at 4500rpm, but it pulls like a freight train at 2500-3000 rpm (for a NA gas motor) compared to stock. It's no turbo diesel or big block but it is a modest SBF. Mudsport linked to my build if your interested. Certainly not the best write-up but it may be helpful.
Those heads you linked to are Chinese castings. I thought about them a while but figured cast iron would last longer. Maybe they're a great deal, I really don't know, but do your homework.
My 96' has: stock bottom end, GT40P heads, Crane 1.7:1 roller rockers, stock roller cam, 5.0L truck upper/ported 5.8L truck lower intake, long tube headers. It's a joy to drive for what you describe and I have 33" tires and 3.55:1 gearing, not to mention I live and drive at high altitude. As stated, it kind of flat lines at 4500rpm, but it pulls like a freight train at 2500-3000 rpm (for a NA gas motor) compared to stock. It's no turbo diesel or big block but it is a modest SBF. Mudsport linked to my build if your interested. Certainly not the best write-up but it may be helpful.
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Keep your eyes peeled. I picked up reman'd GT40P heads on ebay, $335 shipped. Added better springs & seals myself. GT40 heads save you some header headaches. The combustion chambers are bigger (bad) and the flow isn't as good (bad) but I don't think either is a deal breaker for GT40 over GT40P heads.
Those heads you linked to are Chinese castings. I thought about them a while but figured cast iron would last longer. Maybe they're a great deal, I really don't know, but do your homework.
My 96' has: stock bottom end, GT40P heads, Crane 1.7:1 roller rockers, stock roller cam, 5.0L truck upper/ported 5.8L truck lower intake, long tube headers. It's a joy to drive for what you describe and I have 33" tires and 3.55:1 gearing, not to mention I live and drive at high altitude. As stated, it kind of flat lines at 4500rpm, but it pulls like a freight train at 2500-3000 rpm (for a NA gas motor) compared to stock. It's no turbo diesel or big block but it is a modest SBF. Mudsport linked to my build if your interested. Certainly not the best write-up but it may be helpful.
Those heads you linked to are Chinese castings. I thought about them a while but figured cast iron would last longer. Maybe they're a great deal, I really don't know, but do your homework.
My 96' has: stock bottom end, GT40P heads, Crane 1.7:1 roller rockers, stock roller cam, 5.0L truck upper/ported 5.8L truck lower intake, long tube headers. It's a joy to drive for what you describe and I have 33" tires and 3.55:1 gearing, not to mention I live and drive at high altitude. As stated, it kind of flat lines at 4500rpm, but it pulls like a freight train at 2500-3000 rpm (for a NA gas motor) compared to stock. It's no turbo diesel or big block but it is a modest SBF. Mudsport linked to my build if your interested. Certainly not the best write-up but it may be helpful.
GT40 heads are the same price and ill still need all the same parts as if i got the ebay ones anyways. Never know the heads may be amazing. not sure if ill get the lower ported right this minute, but i will plan on it plus getting the 5.0 upper at some point.
I do like though how the ebay heads say you will gain 90hp with his roller rockers and heads alone. So my truck would be at 300 just by swapping heads? time do headers and cold air intake be at 310-325hp and i know that cannot be true. Will it maybe be around 270-275 totally i would say yes but if i can get a 325hp 5.8l 351 thats brand new for 2k total thats amazing. (short block is 1000 new heads 1000 = fake 325hp lol)
335 shipped for reman heads, i would but them right now if they still had them!
Lead Driver
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Pro comp heads are OK to use, and by OK I mean "ehhhhh...ok". Most problems I think arise as a longevity issue, dropping seats, valve guides wearing prematurely, stuff like that. Other problems seem to be in the tolerances of machining....guide plates not locating pushrods properly, rocker arm mismatch to the valve, stuff like that. Luckily, the pedestal mount rockers need no such pieces, so that part is rather moot assuming the castings aren't just flat out bad for part location.
Stresses of prolonged high rpm can wear even the best of parts, so it's not exactly easy to review things like this unless it's from a pool of people using them on an application similar to yours...our low rpm trucks don't stress parts the same anyway.
Check them good, just like any head, for proper machining before bolting on. Then just check rockers and pushrods once bolted, then let us know how it goes.
Stresses of prolonged high rpm can wear even the best of parts, so it's not exactly easy to review things like this unless it's from a pool of people using them on an application similar to yours...our low rpm trucks don't stress parts the same anyway.
Check them good, just like any head, for proper machining before bolting on. Then just check rockers and pushrods once bolted, then let us know how it goes.
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