Stalled & stranded
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, KS
Coolant Temp. Sensor?
Thanks again, everyone. The shop called, owner said that the truck is running great, the only code they pulled is for the coolant temperature sensor. He said it could cause the issue, if, by chance, the sensor got stuck at the lowest temperature (-40 F), it would force it to choke out and possibly flood. I do remember smelling fuel, if only faint, when it stalled.
So, I gave them the go-ahead on that plus a couple other things. Those of you who have experience with codes, do you think this could fix it? God, I hope so, my insurance company's dropping my tow coverage on roadside assist in a couple weeks, then I really can't afford to have it leave me stranded.
So, I gave them the go-ahead on that plus a couple other things. Those of you who have experience with codes, do you think this could fix it? God, I hope so, my insurance company's dropping my tow coverage on roadside assist in a couple weeks, then I really can't afford to have it leave me stranded.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, KS
Subford, are you there?
Truck died again last night coming home from work. Wouldn't restart. I had to push it two blocks in the snow. I didn't have the shop look at the PIP sensor when they had it, guess I should've. It only threw one code while they had it, for a cold temp sensor, which I had them replace.
Guess I'll have to get it towed over to the shop and HOPE it still won't start for them. It's a situation where they can't see a problem unless it's currently exhibiting the symptoms.
If it's the PIP sensor, should I be getting a code for it? Or, is there a chance it could be going bad and the computer not throw any codes for it? Should I tell the shop to check it using an oscilloscope?
Hopefully someone can help, this truly sucks because it's been running & driving great, just dies & won't restart at the most unpredictable times.
phoskins
1996 F150 4.9 I6 4x4 5spd. 175k miles.
Guess I'll have to get it towed over to the shop and HOPE it still won't start for them. It's a situation where they can't see a problem unless it's currently exhibiting the symptoms.
If it's the PIP sensor, should I be getting a code for it? Or, is there a chance it could be going bad and the computer not throw any codes for it? Should I tell the shop to check it using an oscilloscope?
Hopefully someone can help, this truly sucks because it's been running & driving great, just dies & won't restart at the most unpredictable times.
phoskins
1996 F150 4.9 I6 4x4 5spd. 175k miles.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,667
Likes: 301
From: Easton,Ks
The PIP sensor if bad will leave a code in stored memory of the computer and will read out in the CM part of code reading after the KOEO checking is done.
You never told us if the CEL (MIL) turned off while the engine cranked but did not start.
Also you did not say if the fuel pump ran all the time the key was on and it did not start.
The common items for no spark while cranking are:
1. the PIP sensor.
2. the PCM Computer.
3. the Ignition coil.
4. bad wiring.
In that order of most likely to not likely.
Very rare for the Black ICM to be bad.
If you have spark then you may have a fuel problem and you need to check fuel pressure.
You never told us if the CEL (MIL) turned off while the engine cranked but did not start.
Also you did not say if the fuel pump ran all the time the key was on and it did not start.
The common items for no spark while cranking are:
1. the PIP sensor.
2. the PCM Computer.
3. the Ignition coil.
4. bad wiring.
In that order of most likely to not likely.
Very rare for the Black ICM to be bad.
If you have spark then you may have a fuel problem and you need to check fuel pressure.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, KS
Thanks a bunch, Bill.
If I remember right the CEL goes out when I crank it, much like normal. The fuel pump makes the normal brief turn-on sound only. I do not hear it after the initial 2-3 seconds.
The last time it did this, Dec. 23rd, the shop only found one code, for the coolant temperature sensor. Is it possible one of the 4 things you listed wouldn't generate a code? I'll check for spark tomorrow when it isn't below zero degrees outside. The intermittent nature of this jives with your PIP thinking, but I don't want to replace parts unless I'm sure they're bad. It could very well start right up like it does most of the time. Failure does seem to be getting more frequent, though. How would one check the PIP sensor if no code is registered? When it does start, it runs like a scalded ape.
I did replace the ICM with an Echlin ICM when I did my tune up, it was having these problems before that.
Thanks again, you're a big help!
If I remember right the CEL goes out when I crank it, much like normal. The fuel pump makes the normal brief turn-on sound only. I do not hear it after the initial 2-3 seconds.
The last time it did this, Dec. 23rd, the shop only found one code, for the coolant temperature sensor. Is it possible one of the 4 things you listed wouldn't generate a code? I'll check for spark tomorrow when it isn't below zero degrees outside. The intermittent nature of this jives with your PIP thinking, but I don't want to replace parts unless I'm sure they're bad. It could very well start right up like it does most of the time. Failure does seem to be getting more frequent, though. How would one check the PIP sensor if no code is registered? When it does start, it runs like a scalded ape.
I did replace the ICM with an Echlin ICM when I did my tune up, it was having these problems before that.
Thanks again, you're a big help!
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,667
Likes: 301
From: Easton,Ks
Others have said if the CEL goes out while cranking the PCM Computer is then receiving the PIP signal. I have not verified this but will test this as soon as it gets warmer out.
With the fuel pump running for the one second on time is a good sign that it working but without testing for fuel pressure you could still have a blockage in the fuel system (filter or strainer located at the bottom of the pump).
All of the above tests should generate a code but the computer may or may not generate a code if it is bad.
In running the KOEO test someone running the test may be impatient or not knowing that the stored codes will readout after the KOEO electrical tests are done and then after a short pause the stored codes will read out.
Your problem may not show up in the first part of KOEO electrical test but will show up in the second part for the stored code readout (CM).
The ICM that you replaced should have been Black in color, if it was Gray it was the wrong ICM.
With the fuel pump running for the one second on time is a good sign that it working but without testing for fuel pressure you could still have a blockage in the fuel system (filter or strainer located at the bottom of the pump).
All of the above tests should generate a code but the computer may or may not generate a code if it is bad.
In running the KOEO test someone running the test may be impatient or not knowing that the stored codes will readout after the KOEO electrical tests are done and then after a short pause the stored codes will read out.
Your problem may not show up in the first part of KOEO electrical test but will show up in the second part for the stored code readout (CM).
The ICM that you replaced should have been Black in color, if it was Gray it was the wrong ICM.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, KS
Others have said if the CEL goes out while cranking the PCM Computer is then receiving the PIP signal. I have not verified this but will test this as soon as it gets warmer out.
With the fuel pump running for the one second on time is a good sign that it working but without testing for fuel pressure you could still have a blockage in the fuel system (filter or strainer located at the bottom of the pump).
All of the above tests should generate a code but the computer may or may not generate a code if it is bad.
In running the KOEO test someone running the test may be impatient or not knowing that the stored codes will readout after the KOEO electrical tests are done and then after a short pause the stored codes will read out.
Your problem may not show up in the first part of KOEO electrical test but will show up in the second part for the stored code readout (CM).
The ICM that you replaced should have been Black in color, if it was Gray it was the wrong ICM.
With the fuel pump running for the one second on time is a good sign that it working but without testing for fuel pressure you could still have a blockage in the fuel system (filter or strainer located at the bottom of the pump).
All of the above tests should generate a code but the computer may or may not generate a code if it is bad.
In running the KOEO test someone running the test may be impatient or not knowing that the stored codes will readout after the KOEO electrical tests are done and then after a short pause the stored codes will read out.
Your problem may not show up in the first part of KOEO electrical test but will show up in the second part for the stored code readout (CM).
The ICM that you replaced should have been Black in color, if it was Gray it was the wrong ICM.
The ICM I installed is black & located next to the distributor. I believe the original was black, also. I replaced it trying to address this intermittent no-run issue, after a different shop looked at it & recommended ICM along with a tune-up. Did it myself and saved a lot, they are overpriced.
What if it starts up & runs, with no CEL on, no codes stored? Can I tell the shop to put an oscilloscope on the stator assembly or whatever, to see if it's possibly failing?
If the PIP is bad, should I go ahead and replace the whole distributor assembly, it's probably original with 175k miles...?
More Turbo
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 633
Likes: 42
Yes, you can replace the whole distributor versus just the PIP. I would say why not replace the whole thing as it's not that much more. But do replace it yourself. It's not that hard to do.
Have you looked at the PCM? I mean, have you pulled it out, opened it up and looked to see if any of the capacitors are leaking? Your troubles point to PIP or the PCM so... It's so much easier to get the PCM out if you drop the inner fender. Keep at it.
Have you looked at the PCM? I mean, have you pulled it out, opened it up and looked to see if any of the capacitors are leaking? Your troubles point to PIP or the PCM so... It's so much easier to get the PCM out if you drop the inner fender. Keep at it.
Thread Starter
|
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
From: Kansas City, KS
Yes, you can replace the whole distributor versus just the PIP. I would say why not replace the whole thing as it's not that much more. But do replace it yourself. It's not that hard to do.
Have you looked at the PCM? I mean, have you pulled it out, opened it up and looked to see if any of the capacitors are leaking? Your troubles point to PIP or the PCM so... It's so much easier to get the PCM out if you drop the inner fender. Keep at it.
Have you looked at the PCM? I mean, have you pulled it out, opened it up and looked to see if any of the capacitors are leaking? Your troubles point to PIP or the PCM so... It's so much easier to get the PCM out if you drop the inner fender. Keep at it.
By the way, in my last post, I said I replaced the ICM. That is incorrect. I was thinking about the ignition coil, which I replaced. I have not touched the ICM.
Thanks!
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 10 Fords at 2026 Carlisle Ford Nationals
Joe Kucinski
3 Best / 3 Worst Parts of Modern Ford Ownership
Brett Foote
10 Amazing Upgrades That Solve Common Ford Truck Owner Headaches
Pouria Savadkouei
Every 2026 Ford Engine Explained
Brett Foote
10 Ugly Ford Trucks That We Still Kinda Love
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Every Truck Owner NEEDS (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalyptic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
tnplumber
1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks
0
Mar 23, 2019 08:36 PM
900rider
1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks
19
Jun 26, 2005 03:22 AM