Zapped by Plug wire
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Senior User
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John, that is pretty much where I am right now as the PO installed the original ignitor unit in 1999 with a Borg-Warner coil. Part of my post was to see if upgrading to the matching coil (even though it would require a new wire to power) would be suggested. Is it that much of an upgrade? Right now I am probably going to go the Motorcraft wires at a minimum.
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,255
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From: Phoenix, Az.
2X John. Is it that much of an upgrade? I personally don't think so. Look at the awesome hot rods of the 60's and 70's. Big horsepower, big compression, small ET's. All on a stock 20,000 volt coil. And 7MM plug wires. (Let alone the tire technology back then) As far as I'm concerned the core of the plug wires that carries the juice is more important than the O.D. of the insulation. Prolly 20 years ago I was putting some Accel brand plug wires on some vehicle. It was a universal cut to fit set so I saw the tiny diameter of the core. Curious, I grabbed an old Ford Motorcraft wire I had taken off of some vehicle in the past. I always keep old wires around for that "just in case" theory. Cut an end off it and stripped the insulation down to the core. Well, the Motorcraft's center core was easily Double
the diameter of the Accel's. Less resistance through the wire equals more spark energy at the plug. A good insulation is meant to keep the spark in the wire. The center core is meant to carry that spark.
the diameter of the Accel's. Less resistance through the wire equals more spark energy at the plug. A good insulation is meant to keep the spark in the wire. The center core is meant to carry that spark.
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,592
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From: **** hole San Jose ca.
Oh Jeff it was the great days of Packard 440 copper for us hot rodder's.
Remember what it did to our radios buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing those were racing days.
Then some type of carbon suppressant antistatic radios came along.
Was talk about moving the wires if hot it would crack the carbon.
That, I never really believed it..
Orich
Remember what it did to our radios buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing those were racing days.
Then some type of carbon suppressant antistatic radios came along.
Was talk about moving the wires if hot it would crack the carbon.
That, I never really believed it..
Orich
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,396
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From: Cupertino
The center conductors of the plug "wires" that you buy are not wires in the sense of metal strips. They are resistance tubes. Check out a plug wire with an ohmmeter. You will get something like 2000-10000 ohms. This kills off radiation into the radio.
So, current in the wire really is small. What counts is the arc. Once it goes, it makes no difference whether is is a small or large arc.
If stock ignition is properly firing, you you will get no performance improvement from any of this pricey aftermarket stuff. Zero.
Stay with Ford and a solid state module to replace the switching points.
So, current in the wire really is small. What counts is the arc. Once it goes, it makes no difference whether is is a small or large arc.
If stock ignition is properly firing, you you will get no performance improvement from any of this pricey aftermarket stuff. Zero.
Stay with Ford and a solid state module to replace the switching points.
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,255
Likes: 199
From: Phoenix, Az.
Oh Jeff it was the great days of Packard 440 copper for us hot rodder's.
Remember what it did to our radios buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing those were racing days.
Then some type of carbon suppressant antistatic radios came along.
Was talk about moving the wires if hot it would crack the carbon.
That, I never really believed it..
Orich
Remember what it did to our radios buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzing those were racing days.
Then some type of carbon suppressant antistatic radios came along.
Was talk about moving the wires if hot it would crack the carbon.
That, I never really believed it..
Orich
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 4
From: Cupertino
Yeah. And still you see the aftermarket guys marketing spark plugs with exotic metals because their Unobtanium has less resistance than traditional plugs. Like, .01 ohm less compared to 5k in the wire to the plug.
Forget this "juice" stuff to the plug. The idea is to dramatically reduce the current to the plug with resistor wires, not increase it. The wires are antennas. The more current, the more they radiate white noise, "hash" that spreads over all bands and frequencies. So we introduce resistance.
Aftermarket ignition systems are largely a racket and a lot of people are making money off the racket.
Forget this "juice" stuff to the plug. The idea is to dramatically reduce the current to the plug with resistor wires, not increase it. The wires are antennas. The more current, the more they radiate white noise, "hash" that spreads over all bands and frequencies. So we introduce resistance.
Aftermarket ignition systems are largely a racket and a lot of people are making money off the racket.
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,592
Likes: 10
From: **** hole San Jose ca.
Oh and the good ol Spark Kings spark boosters that were sold at County Fairs & swap meets. That could make a big ford 351 or 400m run on 3 cylinder and also boost the RPM's
That did show improvements on any motor.
But the fail was the big push of the gas line magnets that only worked good at draining one wallet
Orich
That did show improvements on any motor.
But the fail was the big push of the gas line magnets that only worked good at draining one wallet
Orich
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 4
From: Cupertino
Here is a related question for Jeff and our ND. I have long wondered.
The mid-60s T-Bolts were the quickest "stock" car ever built. What ignition systems did they run? The 428 Cobra Jets were also fast. Again, what ignition system?
The mid-60s T-Bolts were the quickest "stock" car ever built. What ignition systems did they run? The 428 Cobra Jets were also fast. Again, what ignition system?
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,396
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From: Cupertino
And here is the low-down on the "spark intensifier" racket:
If you widen the gap on a spark plug, the secondary will reach a higher voltage before the plug arcs. If you put two gaps in series- lets say a "spark intensifier" with a .035 gap- the required voltage will double. Fatter spark. But also more strain on coil, wiring, and an increased risk of a blown condenser.
Racket.
All except the pinwheels below the carb and the fuel tank pellets. They were the real deal.
If you widen the gap on a spark plug, the secondary will reach a higher voltage before the plug arcs. If you put two gaps in series- lets say a "spark intensifier" with a .035 gap- the required voltage will double. Fatter spark. But also more strain on coil, wiring, and an increased risk of a blown condenser.
Racket.
All except the pinwheels below the carb and the fuel tank pellets. They were the real deal.
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,255
Likes: 199
From: Phoenix, Az.
Looking at 60/64 Ford Car book off a CD. Looks like Ford's 1st attempt to get electronic ignition on the Thunderbolts. "transistorized ignition". I wonder if this is where Pertronix got their idea. There were points but no condenser. "B" body was Fairlane.
63/ A, B Speclal4/B,6/B,or 8B........C5AF12127F.........with trans ignition.....Parts List 120.3K.....Part number C5AZ12127F (replaced C3AZ12127AF and replaced by C0AZ12127L).....Points C3AZ12127A....rotor was the standard B7A12200A.
Or a more universal listing:
62/64 8/B All High Performance Vehicles C5af12127E....exc trans ignition....Part number C5AZ12127E (replaced C3AZ12127AE and ALSO replaced BY C0AZ12127L!!!!!)....Points FDS12127A (Replaced by C9AZ12171C)...condenser B9AZ12300A.. rotor was the same B7A12200A.
Except transistorized ignition took the usual B6A12029B coil. With trans ig took coil part number C3TZ12029A.
Hey Bill,can you post 60/64 Ford Car illustration section 120 page 397 please to shoe the transistorized ignition system?
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I love the info you guys have been putting out there. It was a pretty simple question, but like most, the new guys (like me) are looking for the most up to date info as well as experience from those of you that have been around for a while. So I think for the time being, until I have to rebuild the motor or come up with some crazy power plant that needs more, I am going to the Motorcraft wires. Probably will get the matching coil for Pertronix Ignitor I already have installed. Please keep the discussion going though, the info is outstanding.
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,592
Likes: 10
From: **** hole San Jose ca.
The use of just adding the Duraspark cap & it's rotor an the base to the stock points Dizzy having the wider post spacing to prevent crossfire and ionization is another benefit. Plus plug wires that stay into the cap.
A lot of theses caps & wiring can be found at the junk yds. in pretty new condition when people just start throw new ignition parts the a vehicle trying to get it to pass smog test or to get it running and fail then junk the vehicle.
So keep an eye out for other little things while visiting a junk yd. treasures
Just say in kind of like Forest Gump's mother said!!
Orich
A lot of theses caps & wiring can be found at the junk yds. in pretty new condition when people just start throw new ignition parts the a vehicle trying to get it to pass smog test or to get it running and fail then junk the vehicle.
So keep an eye out for other little things while visiting a junk yd. treasures
Just say in kind of like Forest Gump's mother said!!
Orich
Hotshot
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 14,255
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From: Phoenix, Az.
I've never worked on a dual point Dizzy. As I understand you have to adjust both sets to the same exact dwell. Put a piece of the box the points came in in-between the 1st set and adjust the 2nd set. Then reverse this to set the 1st set. I was taught back in my 2 1/2 years of Vocational Auto Mechanics classes in High School that the object of dual points was to get more saturation in the coil. Which gives a hotter spark.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 4
From: Cupertino
Back in the day I ran a hot SB Cougar with an Accel dual-point distributor. Mechanical advance, I ran it to 6k. I had nothing but trouble with it. Three or four passes and it was fumbling on ignition. Points needed reset . I went back to a stock distributor.
Just one data point.
Just one data point.