[HELP] Check Charging System
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Cross-Country
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 61
Likes: 1
[HELP] Check Charging System
Lots of posts about this issue on older models. No answers, or very simple answers.
Here goes... 2010 Expedition EL - Battery light and Wrench are on the dash display, Check Charging System message comes up when I run through the system check. Alternator tested good, battery tested good, all connections and cables to/from alternator are good and clean. Battery terminals good and clean. I put a new alternator in with no luck. Took the alternator back to the store and put the old one back in. Also check for codes, no codes what so ever.
I'm am completely defeated on this. The car drives fine, everything works, no other issues. WTF!!!!
I'm not one to give up, but I threw the towel in this morning and took it to a shop. I have a feeling they are going to have a lot of trouble finding the problem also.
Any ideas based on what I have already done and symptoms (or lack there of). Please!!
Here goes... 2010 Expedition EL - Battery light and Wrench are on the dash display, Check Charging System message comes up when I run through the system check. Alternator tested good, battery tested good, all connections and cables to/from alternator are good and clean. Battery terminals good and clean. I put a new alternator in with no luck. Took the alternator back to the store and put the old one back in. Also check for codes, no codes what so ever.
I'm am completely defeated on this. The car drives fine, everything works, no other issues. WTF!!!!
I'm not one to give up, but I threw the towel in this morning and took it to a shop. I have a feeling they are going to have a lot of trouble finding the problem also.
Any ideas based on what I have already done and symptoms (or lack there of). Please!!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,812
Likes: 88
From: Thousand Oaks, CA
Any data?
System voltage with -
everything off
key on, engine off
key on, engine off, headlights on
engine cranking
engine running at idle
Did you check grounding straps on the engine, firewall, frame, etc.
System voltage with -
everything off
key on, engine off
key on, engine off, headlights on
engine cranking
engine running at idle
Did you check grounding straps on the engine, firewall, frame, etc.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,348
Likes: 6
From: Edmonton, AB
Check your wiring harness on any points in the engine area were it is close to any metal or steel parts. It has been known to happen that when the harness makes contact with some parts in the engine that it will rub from travelling around, and when it rubs you can get wires that may have been rubbed thru the sheath and are making contact enough with the metal to trigger the lights.
I would especially look by were the harness goes to the alternator and battery area's and check it as far as you can to the starter alos check the area around the ac condensor. Then while you are under there look at your wire connections on the starter and give them a tug and make sure they are well connected and their is no corrosion
I would especially look by were the harness goes to the alternator and battery area's and check it as far as you can to the starter alos check the area around the ac condensor. Then while you are under there look at your wire connections on the starter and give them a tug and make sure they are well connected and their is no corrosion
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: May 2016
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everything off = 12.15
key on, engine off = 12.13
key on, engine off, headlights on = 11.86
engine cranking = 10.5-10.8
engine running at idle = 13.44
Did you check grounding straps on the engine, firewall, frame, etc.
Grounds from alternator housing all have good continuity back to negative terminal of battery also.
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: May 2016
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What should the volt meter readings be for the 3 wires (green with orange stripe) and the Brown wire on the pig tail where you plug the harness into the alternator? There is a red wire also, but that is just straight 12 volts off the battery.
Right now I get 0.92 volts on the green w/orange stripe while idling and I get 4.15 volts brown wire...
Right now I get 0.92 volts on the green w/orange stripe while idling and I get 4.15 volts brown wire...
Thread Starter
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Cross-Country
Joined: May 2016
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Well was messing around with the signal wiring plug, put the two wires together, the green/orange and the brown and noticed the voltage would spike up to 15+ volts... did that a couple times and put the plug back together and noticed all the sudden I was a getting a steady 14.2 volts and no battery light.
However, the wrench light is on now still and steady. No other symptoms. Everything working fine. I unplugged the battery for about 20 minutes, that didn't do anything.
However, the wrench light is on now still and steady. No other symptoms. Everything working fine. I unplugged the battery for about 20 minutes, that didn't do anything.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,812
Likes: 88
From: Thousand Oaks, CA
The voltage data looks fine for a working system.
Not sure what the GN/OR and BN wires are for, I'm working with wiring diagrams for our 2003 5.4L Exped.
A spike to +15v is high. An alternator can put out almost +17 volts, but is regulated down to +14.6v or so. Voltages over +16v can hurt the battery.
+14.2v would be high charge and +13.4 is normal running/trickle charging the battery.
There's a comment on a diagram about the PCM sending a signal to the regulator for the desired voltage set point using inputs from the TPS, ECT, IAT and VSS
TPS - throttle position sensor
ECT - engine coolant temp
IAT - intake air temp
VSS - vehicle speed sensor
Maybe one of those inputs are acting up causing the PCM to set an error condition.
What does the "wrench" indicate? Don't think I have that display.
Not sure what the GN/OR and BN wires are for, I'm working with wiring diagrams for our 2003 5.4L Exped.
A spike to +15v is high. An alternator can put out almost +17 volts, but is regulated down to +14.6v or so. Voltages over +16v can hurt the battery.
+14.2v would be high charge and +13.4 is normal running/trickle charging the battery.
There's a comment on a diagram about the PCM sending a signal to the regulator for the desired voltage set point using inputs from the TPS, ECT, IAT and VSS
TPS - throttle position sensor
ECT - engine coolant temp
IAT - intake air temp
VSS - vehicle speed sensor
Maybe one of those inputs are acting up causing the PCM to set an error condition.
What does the "wrench" indicate? Don't think I have that display.
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Trailering
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
I have a 2004 Expi and think it is basically the same as the 2003. The comment I read is that very shortly after starting the PCM gets a signal from the alternator and then sends a voltage signal (about half the regular voltage) back to the alternator and somehow that turns off the "Check Charging System" light and the lit Battery icon in the dashboard. I am wrestling with this problem myself. When the "CheckCharging System" display is on voltage is low and while driving drops more and more until there is not enough voltage for the engine to run. If I leave the vehicle overnight the battery recovers, the car starts, and charging voltage etc. are all normal; until the next time.
I have read that only genuine Ford alternators will work properly all the time. Any comments? Maybe I need a genuine alternator instead of the "joe's parts" one I have.
I have read that only genuine Ford alternators will work properly all the time. Any comments? Maybe I need a genuine alternator instead of the "joe's parts" one I have.
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,812
Likes: 88
From: Thousand Oaks, CA
.... When the "CheckCharging System" display is on voltage is low and while driving drops more and more until there is not enough voltage for the engine to run. If I leave the vehicle overnight the battery recovers, the car starts, and charging voltage etc. are all normal; until the next time. ....
What is the voltage with the engine running? (Should be around 13.2-13.8v for normal running/charging, 14.2-14.6v when battery is low and high charge is active)
When driving normal my battery voltage is 13.2-13.4v and never drops below that.
If the voltage ever gets above 15v that is too high and the regulator is probably bad, an unregulated alternator can output around 17v.
Trailering
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 17
Likes: 1
Battery voltage before starting is in the high 10s or 11s. While motor is running it is around 13.5. When the Check Charging System comes on the voltage starts dropping, when that's happening Expe is running on battery voltage which gets lower as I drive and when EXP is shut off it won't restart right away. Left for a while it will. Sometimes Check Charging System light goes off by itself and voltage returns to normal 13.5 or so at the battery. I have had the battery checked at the dealer and it checks out OK, so its not the battery. Alt is aftermarket, could that be the problem? Various site forums say it might be. Also, with Factory Navigation do I need a 135 AMP Alternator? The Ford Parts site does not call for one, just a 110 AMP, and again, some experts seem to think I need a 135amp .
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,812
Likes: 88
From: Thousand Oaks, CA
The battery is either getting worn out or the alternator is not fully charging it.
How old is the battery and have you checked the water level in it?
Put a charger on the battery overnight and check the voltage after it has been disconnected for 20-30 min, it should read around 12.2-12.4v.
A load test will then determine if the battery can hold the voltage.
Leave the engine off, turn on the headlights for awhile, then turn them off and check the battery voltage after a few minutes, the voltage shouldn't drop a lot.
Normal system voltage with the engine running is usually 13.2-13.5v, if it is dropping and gets below 12.4v it is not charging any more.
A 110A alternator will just take awhile longer to recharge the battery after starting.
If high current draw systems have been installed (i.e. stereo/amp/flood lights/etc.) the total system demand can be higher than OEM and might require a larger output alternator.
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