Hi guys i am in need of some help. I just recently got a '69 with a 302. It ran pretty well considering but it needed a radiator, so i decided while it was down to rebuild the carb and throw on a new intake manifold gasket which included pulling the distributor. Well no it will not start, no matter what i do. I get nothing when i turn they key, just cranking, no missing or the engine catching for a second, nothing.

Quick rundown of my specs;
Autolite 2100 (2 BBL)
Accel points eliminator kit
New dist cap
Tried to different sets of plugs, NAPA and MSD performance plugs
Everything else is completely stock
Spark plugs are not new but are in good shape
Fuel should be good, its been sitting there for 3 weeks.

As i said keep in mind the car ran pretty well just a few weeks ago, suddenly i can't get anything out of it.

#4 and #8 seem to keep filling up with gas, to the point where i have to change my oil now because yes it smells like gas. This is more likely due to the constant cranking or attempting to start.
This led me to take off the carb (Autolite 2100)..
- The new power valve checked good, no leakage
- Float was set very close to spec, the float itself (plastic), floated and did not absorb any water.
- The needle and set are new and appear to be holding just fine, the bowl does not appear to be overfilling
- All the other gaskets were new

Looked for spark by using the tool where you connect it between the spark plug wire and the spark plug itself. Admittedly only checked a few of the cylinders, but #1 and #8 checked fine.

I feel that its an ignition issue, so i checked
- The wiring for the points eliminator, appears to have a good ground as well.
- I pulled the dist as i mentioned above, moved the engine to TDC #1 cylinder (compression) and it was inline with my timing pointer at 0 degrees. So i threw the distributor in, slapped on the rotor and pointed it to the #1 spark plug wire on the cap. First time i have done this i am not sure if i missed something?
- Tried advancing the timing a hair before i start it and get nothing. The vacuum dashpot is pointing just to the right of the upper radiator hose, which is where i had it before for the factory initial timing spec.

Would appreciate some help/ideas i am getting pretty frustrated, never had an engine do this.. for this long at least. Thanks.

 

Have you fixed this problem already?

 

Nope, i had it running but its acting odd.

I found that the Accel ignition module was bad, so i replaced it with a new Pertronix and it ran "ok". I noticed when i try to time the engine by placing it at 6 degrees BTDC it will not run. Yet when i timed it by going to 0 TDC then bumping the distributor a bit to advance it was the only time i have got it to run.

I checked to see if the harmonic balancer slipped and it appears it has not. Still looking for ideas for the reason why i get nothing when i try to start it.

Also i see you are from Mass, i am originally from NH.

 

NH is pretty...a long way to HI. But HI has better all around scenery What brought you there, if I may ask?

Back to the Ranchero's illness....My first thought is the ballast resistor wire has gone south. If you're still using the stock or replacement coil, they don't require 12 VDC to run. Applying battery voltage to it will burn it up, would have fried your points regularly and could have burned out the Accel module.

To check the ballast resistor wire: With the key ON, engine OFF, measure the voltage from the (+) side of the coil to ground. If you read anything different than 6-8 VDC, the wire is toast and needs replacing...or a different set up.

Post up your results and we'll go from there.

 

Military, i am stationed there.

I have a OEM replacement BDW coil with the Pertronix points eliminator kit. I checked the voltage and it read just above 6 volts, so that is good.

 

Try reinstalling the original points setup and see if it runs okay.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

But its not reinstalling, initially the previous owner had install the Accel kit, then i installed the Pertronix eliminator kit.

Where do you guys think i should buy this? A kit, a whole new distributor? Seems like a lot of money for something that is a maybe. I will check Craiglist first.

I am curious how spot on does the rotor have to be to #1 spark plug wire, i marked it on the distributor housing 'pretty accurately'. Anyways how far do you usually move the housing forward to advance it from 0 TDC?

Thanks guys, looking for more opinions as always.

 

Don't spend any more dollars on the vehicle until we (you) do a few more tests, please.

That seems a skosh low for a points vehicle and too low for the Petronix kit. It requires a 12 VDC source with a minimum of 8 VDC to work right.

Try this: (From the Petronix directions) Remove the red ignitor wire from the coil. Connect a jumper wire from the (+) battery to the red ignitor wire you just removed. (You're, in effect, bypassing the ballast resistor wire here). Start the vehicle....if it starts, there's a low voltage supply problem, probably due to the pink ballast resistor wire in play. Don't run the vehicle for very long with it jumped - this is not a fix.

Timing: If you're sure #1 cylinder was TDC on the compression stroke, the rotor was pointing to (or close to) #1 plug wire and the pointer was about at "10" on the balancer, you should be good to go. 10* BTDC should be pretty close to proper timing. There's always a little leeway (a few degrees either way) in stabbing the distributor....she'll still start and run giving you enough time to set the correct timing.

Let us know how the test goes and we'll take it from there

Edit: Another thought - do you have a factory tach?
.

 

Ok i will give it a shot. I am going to stab the distributor like i did before when it ran "ok", which was by setting it to TDC #1 and bumping it in the direction of advancing it by a little bit. The only issue was this was the timing was jumping around like crazy and was impossible to accurately time. I am sure somebody will ask i was using one of those basic induction timing lights.

But i will try both and as for the factory tach no, i actually have a tach i am ready to wire in. Actually it should be wired in already, then this whole mess happened. I also have an external tach that i use for tuning.

 

Remove a plug wire and install an extra plug, and ground it. Crank engine for a few seconds.

Keep the battery fully charged while troubleshooting, an engine that won't start is torture for the battery, solenoid and starter. Let the starter rest for ten minutes for every ten seconds of cranking

Anyway what kind of spark are you getting at the plug? If the spark is weak it will not run, or only run poorly. Spark should be bright blue and snap in the air audibly. Red or yellow is no good, it won't be able to jump the plug gap when installed and under compression.

 

Yeah i actually bought a battery charger recently, the battery doesn't seem to like it too much, the starter on the other hand hates it. These starters get heat soaked pretty bad when the engine does run. But i bought a heat blanket for it.

Spark looked good. Appreciate the help guys, got to get my lazy down in the garage and put it all back together.

 

If your spark is good, then (like Filthy Beast says) it sounds to me like you stabbed the distributor 180° out or something like that. Make sure #1 cylinder is at TDC on compression, not exhaust stroke. Fuel+Air+Fire = it has to start.

You can static time a Pertronix module exactly like points, in the same way. It should be very, very close to the correct base timing and start right up.

 

100% sure i am on the compression stroke, i pop the valve cover off and verify the 4 cycles of the engine whenever i find TDC.

 

Has the engine ever ran (recently) to your knowledge?

This is a long shot but is at least a possibility. If an engine hasn't ran in a long, long time, it is possible that the compression will be too low to get it started. Plus it sounds like the rings are getting washed out? The remedy in such cases is a good squirt of motor oil down each of the spark plug holes (to help seal the rings) and reinstall plugs. Once it starts running and the vital fluids start circulating, getting to normal operating temperature, etc the compression should come back up. Not saying this is your problem but, assuming you have good fuel, the timing is correct as you say, and a strong spark this might be an issue.

 

Yes and it ran well. Have not had the car long, decided to do a few things instead of 'leaving them to chance' such as a carb rebuild and replacing the intake manifold gasket.

Thanks for the reply, but i definitely did not drop it in on the exhaust stroke. I usually pop the valve cover off when finding TDC to verify its on the compression stroke.

UPDATE:

I have been pretty busy lately but i bought the Flamethrower coil for the Petronix Ignitor 1 i have. Wired to coil to have a full 12v with no resistor.

Car runs now, but it dies quickly, engine sounds pretty rough. I noticed that the only way it will stay running is by me having my foot on the gas, usually floored. I manually opened the choke all the way because thats the only way it will run. But overall this is good news.

Makes an odd noise at times and will suddenly die even with it floored. I am going to replace the carb gaskets with some higher quality Fel Pro gaskets. I doubt this is the issue but i am going to do it to eliminate any possible vacuum leaks. One thing i noticed since i ran it the last time (during this issue) is the engine wants to surge, RPM increases, decreases back and forth.

It looks like everything works fine it just needs to be tuned. What do you guys run for starting settings for the idle screw, speed screw, fast idle etc? I know i set the choke according to spec, even though i have it fully opened.