Sct SRL
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,258
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From: Houston, Texas
Drivability. I'm not sure exactly what that means but the implication was that stacking the tunes did not always meet with good results.
From PHP...
Because many tuners spoof the ICP reading to artificially raise the pulsewidth in the FICM, some ECM tunes may see some incompatibility or drivability issues when running our FICM tunes. This is because the FICM generates a pulsewidth value based on the ICP pressure received from the ECM. If the ICP value is already artificially low and then is run through a FICM tune where the pulsewidth tables are modified, unpredictable results can occur.
From PHP...
Because many tuners spoof the ICP reading to artificially raise the pulsewidth in the FICM, some ECM tunes may see some incompatibility or drivability issues when running our FICM tunes. This is because the FICM generates a pulsewidth value based on the ICP pressure received from the ECM. If the ICP value is already artificially low and then is run through a FICM tune where the pulsewidth tables are modified, unpredictable results can occur.
With the latest stock FICM calibration ARZ2AL10, it took some time for the turbo to spool on most any tune I ran. This was during and after running through a tank or two to let the truck fully learn. I slap on the old post-buzz flash (prior to any of the inductive heating flashes) and now I have little to no lag running KEM's race tune or Matt's SRLX. (Keep in mind KEM's race tune doesn't artificially lower ICP, but shows the true ICP value much like the canned SCT files.)
Something else that plays a role in this is the PCM strategy they're tuning with.
For example, studies on a dyno (perfomed by PHP) have shown the power differences using the same tuning between VXBC6 and VXBC9, as well as, VXCF4 and VXCF9. VXBC6 and VXCF4 have better fueling than VXBC9 and VXCF9 so you tend to make more power. I've seen this firsthand and certain versions of VXCF4 DO NOT play well with the Atlas 40. Sure, it's powerful and has amazing throttle response, but it's very smoky and fuel economy actually drops. This is why when you mention that you have the Atlas 40 to a tuner, you sometimes end up with a VXCF9 strategy because what the VXCF9 strategy lacks in fueling is made up for by the Atlas 40. Its thereby less smoky and you tend to make better, cleaner power.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27,307
Likes: 549
From: Spanaway
The reason why the ICP is artificially low is to trick the FICM into allowing more fuel. This is because of the latest FICM calibrations and how much they limit fuel. I've even seen this on my own 2005 Excursion...
With the latest stock FICM calibration ARZ2AL10, it took some time for the turbo to spool on most any tune I ran. This was during and after running through a tank or two to let the truck fully learn. I slap on the old post-buzz flash (prior to any of the inductive heating flashes) and now I have little to no lag running KEM's race tune or Matt's SRLX. (Keep in mind KEM's race tune doesn't artificially lower ICP, but shows the true ICP value much like the canned SCT files.)
Something else that plays a role in this is the PCM strategy they're tuning with.
For example, studies on a dyno (perfomed by PHP) have shown the power differences using the same tuning between VXBC6 and VXBC9, as well as, VXCF4 and VXCF9. VXBC6 and VXCF4 have better fueling than VXBC9 and VXCF9 so you tend to make more power. I've seen this firsthand and certain versions of VXCF4 DO NOT play well with the Atlas 40. Sure, it's powerful and has amazing throttle response, but it's very smoky and fuel economy actually drops. This is why when you mention that you have the Atlas 40 to a tuner, you sometimes end up with a VXCF9 strategy because what the VXCF9 strategy lacks in fueling is made up for by the Atlas 40. Its thereby less smoky and you tend to make better, cleaner power.
With the latest stock FICM calibration ARZ2AL10, it took some time for the turbo to spool on most any tune I ran. This was during and after running through a tank or two to let the truck fully learn. I slap on the old post-buzz flash (prior to any of the inductive heating flashes) and now I have little to no lag running KEM's race tune or Matt's SRLX. (Keep in mind KEM's race tune doesn't artificially lower ICP, but shows the true ICP value much like the canned SCT files.)
Something else that plays a role in this is the PCM strategy they're tuning with.
For example, studies on a dyno (perfomed by PHP) have shown the power differences using the same tuning between VXBC6 and VXBC9, as well as, VXCF4 and VXCF9. VXBC6 and VXCF4 have better fueling than VXBC9 and VXCF9 so you tend to make more power. I've seen this firsthand and certain versions of VXCF4 DO NOT play well with the Atlas 40. Sure, it's powerful and has amazing throttle response, but it's very smoky and fuel economy actually drops. This is why when you mention that you have the Atlas 40 to a tuner, you sometimes end up with a VXCF9 strategy because what the VXCF9 strategy lacks in fueling is made up for by the Atlas 40. Its thereby less smoky and you tend to make better, cleaner power.
Sorry about the
Well maybe not a hijack.
I know that you have worked on a lot of this and know what is what.
This is my question.
What would give the best results.
This is the base strategy in my 2006 F350
Base strategy in my 2006 F350
What would give the best overall performance for MPG and turbo spool time?
I understand if I do change the base strategy I will have to have Matt
rewrite my tune. I find that I like the 8K tow tune in the winter and the SRL
in the summer because I can't keep my foot out of it at times.
EDIT :
Just got off the phone with Gearhead.
One thing I do want to toss into the mix at some point soon is the Atlas 40.
Also in talking to the people at Gearhead they say that other than a little smoke
the 40 will work just fine for me. They also told me that the strategy I have
right now is a good place to build from.
So I am just looking for some info right now.
Thanks
Sean <BR>
6.0L Tech Folder
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Houston, Texas
I'll do some digging and get back to you.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 103
Likes: 1
I like to do my research too
My batting average with tunes is now .300. Now, it might be because I have a van and a wonky strategy but this statement from PHP regarding stacking FICM and PCM tunes does not appear to be entirely correct.
FICM Reprogramming - Power Hungry Performance
I'm not sure if it's against FTE rules to post links from other powerstroke forums but here's a few of interest:
strategies and rollbacks: Strategy VXCF9H7 - TheDieselGarage.com
ECM Strategy/Rollback - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
And this one is really interesting where several of the major players in the tuning game acknowledge that they have issues with their PCM tunes and PHP FICM tunes. **NEW** Power Hungry Insight PRO - PowerStrokeArmy
It makes sense to try and understand what each is doing and how they complement or more importantly interfere with one another.
My batting average with tunes is now .300. Now, it might be because I have a van and a wonky strategy but this statement from PHP regarding stacking FICM and PCM tunes does not appear to be entirely correct.
All our tuning utilizes the latest Inductive Heating strategies for improved cold temperature startups and operation. With 4 power levels to chose from (Economy, Atlas 40, Atlas 80, and Hercules), our programs complement any ECM tuning, whether it is stock or modified.
FICM Reprogramming - Power Hungry Performance
I'm not sure if it's against FTE rules to post links from other powerstroke forums but here's a few of interest:
strategies and rollbacks: Strategy VXCF9H7 - TheDieselGarage.com
ECM Strategy/Rollback - Ford Powerstroke Diesel Forum
And this one is really interesting where several of the major players in the tuning game acknowledge that they have issues with their PCM tunes and PHP FICM tunes. **NEW** Power Hungry Insight PRO - PowerStrokeArmy
It makes sense to try and understand what each is doing and how they complement or more importantly interfere with one another.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,258
Likes: 770
From: Houston, Texas
And this one is really interesting where several of the major players in the tuning game acknowledge that they have issues with their PCM tunes and PHP FICM tunes. **NEW** Power Hungry Insight PRO - PowerStrokeArmy
It makes sense to try and understand what each is doing and how they complement or more importantly interfere with one another.
It makes sense to try and understand what each is doing and how they complement or more importantly interfere with one another.
Very good read....
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Brett Foote
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2016
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After a lengthy read, I noticed the issues with the Econo and Atlas 40 they were talking about with the SRL series of tunes. Running the Atlas 40 and Econo tunes, my truck was smoky and didn't get good fuel economy. Now that I'm running the buzz flash and SRL Extreme, I have no smoke, the power is awesome, and I can't complain at all.
Very good read....
Very good read....
What's the buzz flash? Is that some sort of hybrid FICM tune or an earlier strategy that doesn't have some of the tweaks that a PHP FICM tune has?
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,258
Likes: 770
From: Houston, Texas
http://www.flatratetech.com/downloads/diesel_4.pdf
People were bothered by the injectors quietly buzzing after your turned the key off, so Ford and Navistar had to come up with something else, hence inductive heating.
While the inductive heating is amazing for cold starts, I like knowing when I have bad injectors and I also like my turbo to spool when I ask it to with my right foot. The post buzz has more, and better fueling than the latest inductive heating flashes.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 103
Likes: 1
An earlier strategy designed to help with cold starts and stiction. It was the predecessor to the inductive heating flashes.
http://www.flatratetech.com/downloads/diesel_4.pdf
People were bothered by the injectors quietly buzzing after your turned the key off, so Ford and Navistar had to come up with something else, hence inductive heating.
While the inductive heating is amazing for cold starts, I like knowing when I have bad injectors and I also like my turbo to spool when I ask it to with my right foot. The post buzz has more, and better fueling than the latest inductive heating flashes.
http://www.flatratetech.com/downloads/diesel_4.pdf
People were bothered by the injectors quietly buzzing after your turned the key off, so Ford and Navistar had to come up with something else, hence inductive heating.
While the inductive heating is amazing for cold starts, I like knowing when I have bad injectors and I also like my turbo to spool when I ask it to with my right foot. The post buzz has more, and better fueling than the latest inductive heating flashes.
So, that's a FICM tune that you have access to and can install your own? For the rest of us that desire FICM tuning it's either PHP or IDP I think. Ideally, you let the tuner know what tune you have and they tune their PCM tune around it. Gearhead seems to be the one with the conflict. And only for some strategies.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,258
Likes: 770
From: Houston, Texas
So, that's a FICM tune that you have access to and can install your own? For the rest of us that desire FICM tuning it's either PHP or IDP I think. Ideally, you let the tuner know what tune you have and they tune their PCM tune around it. Gearhead seems to be the one with the conflict. And only for some strategies.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 27,307
Likes: 549
From: Spanaway
KEM Diesel also writes FICM and PCM tunes that won't disappoint. However, Mike has been very hard to reach over the past few weeks via phone or email. So while I'm pleased with the tune, I'm not very pleased with the customer service I've been getting lately, especially when I was trying to spend more money.
think of better and more relaxing ways to do that.
Sean <BR>
6.0L Tech Folder
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 103
Likes: 1
Something else that plays a role in this is the PCM strategy they're tuning with.
For example, studies on a dyno (perfomed by PHP) have shown the power differences using the same tuning between VXBC6 and VXBC9, as well as, VXCF4 and VXCF9. VXBC6 and VXCF4 have better fueling than VXBC9 and VXCF9 so you tend to make more power. I've seen this firsthand and certain versions of VXCF4 DO NOT play well with the Atlas 40. Sure, it's powerful and has amazing throttle response, but it's very smoky and fuel economy actually drops. This is why when you mention that you have the Atlas 40 to a tuner, you sometimes end up with a VXCF9 strategy because what the VXCF9 strategy lacks in fueling is made up for by the Atlas 40. Its thereby less smoky and you tend to make better, cleaner power.
For example, studies on a dyno (perfomed by PHP) have shown the power differences using the same tuning between VXBC6 and VXBC9, as well as, VXCF4 and VXCF9. VXBC6 and VXCF4 have better fueling than VXBC9 and VXCF9 so you tend to make more power. I've seen this firsthand and certain versions of VXCF4 DO NOT play well with the Atlas 40. Sure, it's powerful and has amazing throttle response, but it's very smoky and fuel economy actually drops. This is why when you mention that you have the Atlas 40 to a tuner, you sometimes end up with a VXCF9 strategy because what the VXCF9 strategy lacks in fueling is made up for by the Atlas 40. Its thereby less smoky and you tend to make better, cleaner power.
Still waiting on a revision from Gearhead but I think I might try PHP. I suspect they know how to make a PCM tune play well with their FICM tuning.
Elder User
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Arizona
Just looking for more clarification as I look for the holy grail of tunes (does it exist?). From what I've gleaned is PHP usually flashes a 2005-2007 truck to the VXCF4 stragegy which seems odd given your rationale above. I believe that IDP uses the VXCF9 strategy and Gearhead the VXCF5. Not sure they change that if you tell them you have the Atlas40.
Still waiting on a revision from Gearhead but I think I might try PHP. I suspect they know how to make a PCM tune play well with their FICM tuning.
Still waiting on a revision from Gearhead but I think I might try PHP. I suspect they know how to make a PCM tune play well with their FICM tuning.
