CNG/Propane Questions

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Jul 28, 2016 | 07:35 PM

#16

AZFordLover

Thread Starter

Tuned

Joined: Jun 2016

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LCR

Diesel is good for at least 6 months in most weather, up to a year below 70*

Good to know - thanks!

Doesn't make the diesel vs gas choice any easier, naturally.

Jul 28, 2016 | 07:58 PM

#17

archerseven

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Joined: Apr 2016

Posts: 306

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From: Maine

Quote:

Originally Posted by troverman

My concern is the volatility of LPG / CNG, especially compared to diesel. I'm not comfortable storing large amounts of those fuels at home, unlike diesel. Diesel, you can toss a match into and it basically won't light. Propane...look out.

If you are trying to be prepared for power outages, simply purchase a 275 gallon fuel oil barrel like those found in the basements of most homes in the northeast. Put a couple of filters and water separators on it, and install a hand pump. Problem solved.

CNG is quite stable over time, because the pressurized system means there's no air getting in. Gasoline and Diesel are more stable in fully sealed systems as well... that's why on plug-in hybrids they normally have a special switch you have to hit to refuel it, it releases the vacuum or seal they use to keep the gas better longer.

Never really considered storing a CNG truck at home to be a risk at all, those tanks hold up very well, and if they were to fail, it's easy to detect + they use an odorant. The home refuelling systems pressurize directly to the truck, so you're not storing just a storage tank of it at home (Which itself wouldn't be any real issue, unless your house caught fire and it was stored indoors.)

True that diesel burns slower, though.

Jul 28, 2016 | 08:58 PM

#18

LCR

More Turbo

Joined: Apr 2016

Posts: 698

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From: Houston, Tx

I would in no way whatsoever be concerned about parking a CNG truck in the house.

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=hVRcugQW1Wg

Jul 29, 2016 | 08:10 AM

#19

Rasalas

Cargo Master

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 3,336

Likes: 4

From: Western New York

Quote:

Originally Posted by archerseven

Never really considered storing a CNG truck at home to be a risk at all, those tanks hold up very well, and if they were to fail, it's easy to detect + they use an odorant. The home refuelling systems pressurize directly to the truck, so you're not storing just a storage tank of it at home (Which itself wouldn't be any real issue, unless your house caught fire and it was stored indoors.)

True that diesel burns slower, though.

The only area of issue would be the valves, fittings and seals of a system if compressing at home. Due to a small leak, undetected, accumulating a large pool of gas I would think the system should be outside. Just as all propane systems are outside just for that reason. Granted, hydrogen is under higher pressures but part of the local government green fleet which uses hydrogen fuel cells suffered a setback when a leak on a refueling hose exploded and destroyed the refueling station and vehicle and because it was on country airport property also shut down the airport for a spell. And that was outside. For CNG all the protocols for propane are probably in order. Gas explosions are as dangerous as nitrates and diesel mixtures only much more fluid.

Jul 29, 2016 | 08:45 AM

#20

AZFordLover

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I thought the pooling was only a problem for propane (heavier than air).

Isn't CNG lighter than air and would dissipate? That seems to be the "party line" for pro-CNG anyways.

Source: Advantages and Benefits of Compressed Natural Gas CNG as an Alternative Fuel for Vehicles

I suppose a CNG leak "pooling" on the ceiling of an enclosed space would be equally dangerous.

Jul 29, 2016 | 08:57 AM

#21

Rasalas

Cargo Master

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 3,336

Likes: 4

From: Western New York

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZFordLover

I thought the pooling was only a problem for propane (heavier than air).

Isn't CNG lighter than air and would dissipate? That seems to be the "party line" for pro-CNG anyways.

Source: Advantages and Benefits of Compressed Natural Gas CNG as an Alternative Fuel for Vehicles

I suppose a CNG leak "pooling" on the ceiling of an enclosed space would be equally dangerous.

Any explosive gas mixture in a confined space is considered dangerous. Or for that matter, any gas in a confined space other than air can cause issues. Here in the northeast we get to view at least one or two houses a year completely demolished by natural gas leaks. And then there was the train wreck in Cajon Pass a few years ago which ruptured a gas line blocks away from the accident. Completely destroyed an entire neighborhood.

Don't get me wrong, I am pro CNG if it works for someones requirements. But I also want it to be handled safely with respect for its power.

Jul 29, 2016 | 09:14 AM

#22

Rasalas

Cargo Master

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 3,336

Likes: 4

From: Western New York

Quote:

Originally Posted by AZFordLover

Good to know - thanks!

Doesn't make the diesel vs gas choice any easier, naturally.

I have seen diesel trucks and construction equipment which sat unstarted over 10 years start and run (after a few minor repairs) on the diesel fuel in their tanks. This is not to state the fuel was "good" but it did still operate the engine. The issue with long term storage is moisture, rust and contamination in the tank. There are "algae" which form in the tank from the moisture and also separation of the tars and paraffin which can clog filters and injectors. These will also separate under cold temperatures in fuel not chemically treated for cold weather.

11. What are the problems related to long-term fuel storage?

Temperature, humidity and condensation are very important factors in managing fuel integrity. The presence of free water provides the medium for microbiological growth that results in the formation of slime and acids causing corrosion of metal surfaces such as storage tanks, pumps, injectors, etc.

Other key factors leading to fuel deterioration, polymerization, and stratification in storage tanks are chemical incompatibility and stress caused by heat and pressure of pumps, centrifuges, and heaters. Since most diesel engines return considerable amounts of fuel back to the tank, it is easy to see that the engine itself contributes to fuel deterioration.

Read more at Critical Fuel technology is a distributor for Algae-x products. Call us if your fuel tanks are clogged!