Sorry for crossposting, but I thought I might get more people in this forum.
As suggested in my other thread (https://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/DCForumID18/680.html) I'll have to face the task of taking the front of my engine apart. Since I'm already there, I thought of changing my timing chain as I don't know what the previous owners have done on the thing. Is there a special sort of chain (like 'true roller' - whatever that is) that will be any better than others? Brands (Cloyes, Edelbrock, Crane, Dynagear, Ford Racing, etc.)? Or should I just go with OEM replacement? What about timing gear drives? I've heard they rob some horses? What other performance upgrades/replacement options are there?

 

I say just get a nice replacement timing set.
AutoZone sells the Dynagear for about 20 buck’s, and it’s actually a nice chain.
If you wanted to get the other brands like Cloyes, Edlebrock, crane, you'd spend anywhere form $50 to a $100, but the quality would be about the same.
I don’t think you can advance or retard the timing with the Dynagear, but you won’t be doing that on a stock engine anyways.
I think you should get the Dynager, it will be better than the stocker.
That’s my opinion!

 

I did this not too long ago on my 88 302. I bought a chain from Autozone. It was a Cloyes K-Series, I think it was $27, a basic replacement chain. After comparing it to the stock chain, I was more impressed by the stock chain, and sort of wished I had gotten a higher quality replacement. The stock chain is a double roller design, with solid roller links, as opposed to the replacement, which used a rolled style link. My guess is that the rolled style link is cheaper to manufacture. Picture a roll pin, versus a solid pin--the roll pin is made from a flat piece of metal, rolled into a cylinder. This is how they made the link pins on the replacement chain. If I was to do it again, I'd spend about $70-100 to be satisfied with the parts quality, especially if I was building a new performance motor. But at the time, I needed to get it back on the road, and I used the cheap chain. No problems yet.

A few things:

I unbolted both accessory brackets and laid them to each side of the front of the engine, and was able to access everything without removing/disconnecting any accessories.

One of the bolts in the timing chain cover seized in the cover, and broke off. I ended up having to pull and pry on the timing cover to break the bolt off where it went into the block. The stub of the bolt came out with just a fingernail grip on the threads sticking out of the block. I replaced the mangled cover with a cheap imported one for $70 (New from Ford, it was $250, and none of the junkyards had one that I could find).

I used a chemical gasket called The Right Stuff from Permatex instead of a gasket kit, and had good results with no leaks.

Be careful, because you have to cut the forward portion of the oil pan gasket off, and debris can fall into the oilpan.

This was a good time for me to install a new water pump. Mine was still pumping after many miles, but the aluminum casting had somehow lost a small chunk--it just started seeping, I poked it and it dislodged a loose bit of the casting. The temporary fix which lasted for several thousand miles was to drill out the hole and use a rubber well plug with a screw that made it expand when tightened.

After finishing, I questioned whether the chain really needed to be replaced, but it did have a lot of miles on it.

Brian

 

>If I was to do it again, I'd spend about
>$70-100 to be satisfied with the parts quality

I got a Cloyes TRUE roller chain for about $75. I'm going open it up tomorrow.

>able to access everything without removing/disconnecting
>any accessories.

Ah, that's a relief!

>I replaced the mangled cover with a cheap imported one for $70

Where did you get that from? I know the ones from Ford are $$$!

>Be careful, because you have to cut the forward portion of
>the oil pan gasket off, and debris can fall into the oilpan.

I'll take great care of that. Most likely I'll degrease and clean the area pretty thoroughly, before I open it up.

>After finishing, I questioned whether the chain really
>needed to be replaced, but it did have a lot of miles on it.

It's driving fine, so far, but I guess it doesn't hurt :-)

How long did it take you to do the job?

Thanks for your tips!

 

The Cloyes True Roller one should be nice quality. I would not worry about using it. There are more expensive alternatives, and they claim more precise cam timing, but for most practical purposes, a good quality chain is sufficient (and not as loud as a gear driven setup).

Of course you will have to pull fan and radiator shroud to pull both accessory brackets off.

The cover was purchased from a local junkyard, they ordered it new from somewhere. It was not as nicely cast and finished as the original, I also had to press in the crankshaft seal, I believe the Ford ones are pre-installed. I think it was made overseas for cheap, but it seems to be working fine. I would suggest trying to find a used one if you want to retain Ford OEM quality parts.

I read your other post after I had posted. I would bet that bolt broke off because it seized in the timing cover, you will probably be able to get the water pump off once you take all the other bolts out and break the seal between it and the cover. then you will be faced with trying to drill it out or break it. I tried welding a head onto the tip, vice grips, and the bolt broke again before it would turn. I thanked God when I found that it was not stuck in the block. The dissimilar metal corrosion(steel bolt/aluminum timing cover) plus coolant seepage combines to make for a very stuck bolt. I attempted to drill out the bolt after I pulled the cover off forcefully. It was very difficult to drill, I used a drill press, and broke several bits. At first I hoped that all the heat and drilling it would loosen the bolt, but no, it was still stuck tight when I took the timing cover to the recycler for a dollar's worth of aluminum scrap. I think the bolt I broke may have been the same one you indicated, I know it was on that side.

Overall it took about two weeks for me to finish, but much of that was spent trying to deal with that bolt and tracking down a new cover. Also, I did the job at school, and not at home, so I had to find spare time to go work on it when schedule allowed. If everything went right, you could probably do it in a day's time. I would think a weekend would be sufficient if you dedicated the whole time to the project, and had all possible parts you needed beforehand.

See this picture, it shows part of the timing chain, but does not have the full view of the bottom part. It is from Hippie Customs user gallery:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gallery/sizeimage.php?&photoid=425&width=0

Brian

 

Thanks to you guys I managed to fix everything in one weekend! We had to use a torch to heat the two bolts (one aparently from the previous owner) that were stuck to get them out. Check out the webpage in my sig for details. I even managed to find some bolts to replace the broken ones. I also installed an electric fan, since everything had to come off anyway
So thanks again, that was a huge help! I just love this site!

 

Brian,

In your reply you questioned whether the chain/gears even needed to be replaced. Was there a lot of slack in the chain? Were the gears worn? Do they still use nylon gears or are they all steel?

I have a 1989 F-150 302 v-8 with 93,000 miles that needs a water pump but I was thinking of replacing the timing chain/gear while I was at it. Based on the appearance of your chain/gears (not sure you mentioned milage), do you think I should change my gears?
I am the original owner of my truck and always changed the oil & filter at 3000 mi.
Thanks.

 

>Was there a lot of slack in the
>chain?

Not too much. If you click on the picture with the old chain (see my sig), you can just barely see the slack on the left part of the chain. I'd say it was about a half inch, maybe an inch but not more.

>Were the gears worn?

Not really.

>Do they still use nylon gears or
>are they all steel?

The one that was in my truck was a good double chain. But maybe the previous owner had already replaced it?

>Based on the appearance of
>your chain/gears (not sure you mentioned milage)

My truck has 163k now.

>do you think I should change my gears?

If none of the bolts are seized (as mine were), it's an easy enough job to do and it saves big bucks in case the chain should go or slip a gear. I think when your engine gets over 100k you should look into changing the chain. You're close. So if you have the time and like to do it, it's not very difficult.

 

There was some slack, but it was probably still acceptable. The original chain had over 200,000 miles on it, so I thought it was probably worn. The appearance of the chain was good, with no obvious problem areas. It was a good quality double roller chain, the gears are all steel, very heavy duty appearance. I did mine because I was thinking that maybe there was excessive slack affecting my ignition timing accuracy, contributing to pinging under load. It still pings, I think it is mainly from carbon buildup, because it goes away for awhile with some good quality fuel additive.

If you have not abused the truck, I would think your chain is good to go another 100k, like mine did. But if it makes you feel more comfortable, do it, just make sure you get a good quality chain. (I wished I would have gotten a better chain for mine, but I am hoping to have the engine rebuilt, then I will upgrade the chain.)

From the 1988 Shop Manual:

Timing Chain Deflection
1. Rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise (as viewed from the front) to take up the slack on the LH side of the chain.

2. Establish a reference point on the block, and measure from this point to the chain.

3. Rotate the crankshaft in the opposite direction to take up the slack on the RH side of the chain. Force the LH side of the chain out with fingers and measure the distance between the reference point and the chain. Timing chain deflection is the difference between the two measurements.

If the deflection exceeds spec, replace chain and gears.

But there is no spec listed in the manual. Check with some reputable timing chain manufacturers, they probably would be willing to give a spec.

Brian

 

Ooops, sorry for answering to the wrong post!
It was too early, or something...
bjoern
:-X11

 

Brian,
Thanks for the info. With only 93000 miles on my truck, always changing the oil at 3000mi, and rarely exceeding 3000 rpms, I don't think I'll replace the chain. I'm glad to hear the gears are steel. I've rebuilt some 1970's chevys and chryslers that had nylon gears that were good for 80,000 mi. I've gotta get that waterpump replaced though, it drips on the floor.....the bearing is going bad.
Thanks again.

Bubba