Holley 1904 Carb Question
#76
The "wiggle" is just up and down on the valve stem--side to side feels solid. On the #1 exhaust valve, the .022 gauge slides in pretty easily. For the intake, it's a little forced. I see the nuts and the adjustment screws on the side of the rocker arm opposite the valve stems. In theory I should be able to make the lash adjustments. I just need to figure out how to divide the crankshaft damper into 1/3's. Maybe my wife's sewing tape measure? I've had her turkey baster for years. LOL. Do you think correcting the lash will make a difference?
Since adding the Lucas Oil Treatment, I've driven about 110 miles and added ! Qt. of oil. The good news is that I'm still just below the full mark. Maybe I'll make 200 miles! Do you think I should be adding something to my oil to help dissolve the sludge? Thanks.
Since adding the Lucas Oil Treatment, I've driven about 110 miles and added ! Qt. of oil. The good news is that I'm still just below the full mark. Maybe I'll make 200 miles! Do you think I should be adding something to my oil to help dissolve the sludge? Thanks.
#77
#78
I would set your valves according to the manual with the engine hot. It is more a pain in the butt with everything hot but you get accurate lash.
I doubt your valves are causing the low compression. Your compression numbers are pretty consistent after you squirted oil in the cylinders. I think your rings are not sealing very well. Since your engine has sludge and only 800 miles after decades of slumber I too think it needs driving. Use decent oil and change it often. I like 15W-40 diesel oil since it is designed to handle contamination. Also, the hot oil pressure in my / Dad's 37 sedan is higher with diesel oil than with normal 20W-50 oil.
One warning, make sure you are getting good oil supply to the rockers before you keep driving it. With the valve cover off start the engine up and let it idle. You should see oil flowing within 30 seconds tops.
I doubt your valves are causing the low compression. Your compression numbers are pretty consistent after you squirted oil in the cylinders. I think your rings are not sealing very well. Since your engine has sludge and only 800 miles after decades of slumber I too think it needs driving. Use decent oil and change it often. I like 15W-40 diesel oil since it is designed to handle contamination. Also, the hot oil pressure in my / Dad's 37 sedan is higher with diesel oil than with normal 20W-50 oil.
One warning, make sure you are getting good oil supply to the rockers before you keep driving it. With the valve cover off start the engine up and let it idle. You should see oil flowing within 30 seconds tops.
#79
#80
If all your valves are loose then correcting lash will not improve compression. However, it will help your valve train last longer and your engine should be a bit quieter (depending on how worn everything is already). If you have valves that are too tight then you can improve compression.
When I got my 53 the valve train was very worn. The ends of my rocker arms were worn where they contacted the valves. If I set the valves by the manual my engine ran poorly. I ended up idling my engine and setting my valves by tightening them up to manual spec. If the idle got worse I loosened that adjuster until the engine smoothed out, then tightened up the jam nut. When I was done the engine had a very even smooth exhaust sound at the tail pipe. However, the mechanical noise under the hood was approaching diesel engine levels. I replaced all rockers, the rocker shaft, cam, and lifters during the engine rebuild. Everything is nice at the correct lash setting now.
When I got my 53 the valve train was very worn. The ends of my rocker arms were worn where they contacted the valves. If I set the valves by the manual my engine ran poorly. I ended up idling my engine and setting my valves by tightening them up to manual spec. If the idle got worse I loosened that adjuster until the engine smoothed out, then tightened up the jam nut. When I was done the engine had a very even smooth exhaust sound at the tail pipe. However, the mechanical noise under the hood was approaching diesel engine levels. I replaced all rockers, the rocker shaft, cam, and lifters during the engine rebuild. Everything is nice at the correct lash setting now.
#81
Thanks for providing some context for valve adjustment for old and worn vehicles. I guess just because the valves are a little loose on #1 cylinder doesn't mean the valves on the other cylinders will be loose as well--but the compression numbers are all pretty close to one another-- so maybe they are. Most people that hear my truck run comment on how quiet and smooth it is. A little loose is maybe good for an old engine?
At this point, I think I'm inclined to let well enough alone regarding valve adjustment and other engine repairs in general. I'll keep adding oil as needed--change filters often--and hope compression and oil consumption improve over time. What do you guys think of continuing with Lucas Oil Treatment? I'm thinking of switching to the diesel oil that Fred recommends.
At this point, I think I'm inclined to let well enough alone regarding valve adjustment and other engine repairs in general. I'll keep adding oil as needed--change filters often--and hope compression and oil consumption improve over time. What do you guys think of continuing with Lucas Oil Treatment? I'm thinking of switching to the diesel oil that Fred recommends.
#82
#83
I agree that the sludge won't hurt anything. Based upon your numbers it looks like #4 & #5 have a ring problem. Chances are that they are just stuck. Your plugs look better. I would just drive it, watch your oil level and see what happens. Again the numbers would suggest that #3 has a slight valve problem but the plug looks normal so I would not do anything right now.
That big jet that you had in the carb can cause a lot of problems in the combustion chamber. Today's engines get very hot in order to reduce emissions and make a complete burn. But our old engines don't get that hot and if the mixture is rich that cools down the combustion even more and causes more deposits around rings, valve guides, etc. I assume that you have an oil filter on the engine? Hot, clean oil will do wonders. I'm not sure that I would use diesel oil as Fred suggests as the additive packages in the oils are significantly different. But I have never tried that before.
I would agree with Ross, just use good quality clean oil. But keep driving longer distances, avoiding as many short trips as possible. Your goal should be to get those plugs closer to a gray color.
As Fred says, if the valves are not noisy I wouldn't do anything right now.
That big jet that you had in the carb can cause a lot of problems in the combustion chamber. Today's engines get very hot in order to reduce emissions and make a complete burn. But our old engines don't get that hot and if the mixture is rich that cools down the combustion even more and causes more deposits around rings, valve guides, etc. I assume that you have an oil filter on the engine? Hot, clean oil will do wonders. I'm not sure that I would use diesel oil as Fred suggests as the additive packages in the oils are significantly different. But I have never tried that before.
I would agree with Ross, just use good quality clean oil. But keep driving longer distances, avoiding as many short trips as possible. Your goal should be to get those plugs closer to a gray color.
As Fred says, if the valves are not noisy I wouldn't do anything right now.
#84
#85
I can do that! The transmission and engine still make all the old familiar sounds, and my truck even smells like it did in the old days when I was young and my Dad would take us out for rides in his old Coast Guard truck. There weren't any other trucks like his in town at the time, and of course, there still aren't.
#86
If all your valves are loose then correcting lash will not improve compression. However, it will help your valve train last longer and your engine should be a bit quieter (depending on how worn everything is already). If you have valves that are too tight then you can improve compression.
When I got my 53 the valve train was very worn. The ends of my rocker arms were worn where they contacted the valves. If I set the valves by the manual my engine ran poorly. I ended up idling my engine and setting my valves by tightening them up to manual spec. If the idle got worse I loosened that adjuster until the engine smoothed out, then tightened up the jam nut. When I was done the engine had a very even smooth exhaust sound at the tail pipe. However, the mechanical noise under the hood was approaching diesel engine levels. I replaced all rockers, the rocker shaft, cam, and lifters during the engine rebuild. Everything is nice at the correct lash setting now.
When I got my 53 the valve train was very worn. The ends of my rocker arms were worn where they contacted the valves. If I set the valves by the manual my engine ran poorly. I ended up idling my engine and setting my valves by tightening them up to manual spec. If the idle got worse I loosened that adjuster until the engine smoothed out, then tightened up the jam nut. When I was done the engine had a very even smooth exhaust sound at the tail pipe. However, the mechanical noise under the hood was approaching diesel engine levels. I replaced all rockers, the rocker shaft, cam, and lifters during the engine rebuild. Everything is nice at the correct lash setting now.
It's definitely worth setting correctly on a "new" motor. It will run a lot better if they have not been looked after. Quieter too. Also the clearance closes up, at least on a stock iron engine, as it warms up. But the valve lash gets tighter as the valve train components wear, at least as I understand it. It would seem like they'd loosen up? Maybe as valves recede into the heads. Don't quote me on that. I just keep 'em lashed up good. Just not every weekend.
#87
#88
Surely, too tight is bad.. too loose is bad..
But I think many people's understanding is to set 'em maybe a little tight and figure they'll get looser over time. Valve lash should not be ignored or put off with the notion that the valvetrain will start rattling when it gets real bad/out of limits. With a good gasket setup the covers can be popped off instantly and reinstalled without leaks, so there isn't much excuse for neglect.
But I think many people's understanding is to set 'em maybe a little tight and figure they'll get looser over time. Valve lash should not be ignored or put off with the notion that the valvetrain will start rattling when it gets real bad/out of limits. With a good gasket setup the covers can be popped off instantly and reinstalled without leaks, so there isn't much excuse for neglect.
#89
i started up the engine just now with the valve cover still off. I wasn't sure what to expect. I ran the engine for several minutes and really didn't see any changes. No oil dripping or splashing--no parts getting wet--certainly no oil running along the bottom for the pick-up tube to recycle. What should I be seeing? Thanks everyone for your continued interest and support.
#90
The oil supply to your rockers is the tube that comes up and goes back to the rear rocker stand. The oil runs forward through the rocker shaft and excess is drained out the tube that come out the front rocker stand. If you don't have oil flowing out that front tube then you have oil supply issues to the top end. Overhead valve Fords of the 1950s are notorious for this issue, mostly due to lack of maintenance.
To diagnose if you are getting oil to the rocker take the oil supply line loose from the rear rocker stand. There is a clip that holds the end onto the stand. Once you remove the clip then you pull straight up on the line where it comes through the head. There is an o-ring on the end of the line that likes to stick in the block so be careful. Make sure the line is clean and clear. Once you are satisfied with the line you can install it rotated so that the supply side fits back down in the head but the rocker side is free over the head. Start the engine and see if oil flows out of the line. If oil flows, reinstall the line into the rocker and see if you have oil to the rockers. If you have oil to the line but have no oil to the rockers you need to remove the rocker assembly and clean everything so oil will flow properly.
As far as setting valve lash, I rarely have to change anything once things are properly set. I check valve lash every few years just to verify that nothing has changed.
To diagnose if you are getting oil to the rocker take the oil supply line loose from the rear rocker stand. There is a clip that holds the end onto the stand. Once you remove the clip then you pull straight up on the line where it comes through the head. There is an o-ring on the end of the line that likes to stick in the block so be careful. Make sure the line is clean and clear. Once you are satisfied with the line you can install it rotated so that the supply side fits back down in the head but the rocker side is free over the head. Start the engine and see if oil flows out of the line. If oil flows, reinstall the line into the rocker and see if you have oil to the rockers. If you have oil to the line but have no oil to the rockers you need to remove the rocker assembly and clean everything so oil will flow properly.
As far as setting valve lash, I rarely have to change anything once things are properly set. I check valve lash every few years just to verify that nothing has changed.