Hello all,

I know it's been a while since I've visited. Let's just say it's been a busy year and I'll get right to my question.

My truck's separator plate is missing the part by the starter. Now, I've not worried about it in the 6 years that I've owned the truck until recently. The starter is grinding on the flywheel. I have replaced the ring gear twice in the last year and now it's getting worse. My question is, how necessary is the separator plate (I've read conflicting accounts)?

Also this last time I was under the truck putting the transmission back in I noticed that the motor mounts on the passenger side are off and the motor has shifted back about an inch. I know that this isn't good but I would think it would be worse for the drive train than the starter and flywheel relationship as the bell housing bolts direct to the motor and the angle of the motor shouldn't affect it. If I'm wrong please tell me.

One other thing that I notice, when the starter is new and working well that when I let off the key it grinds as the starter is retracting. I have looked and can find no difference between the manual and automatic starters.

One last thing, if I should need a new separator plate where can I find one? I have looked high and low and there aren't any available; at least none that I can find.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

I have attached a photo of the separator plate and circled the part that is missing.

The part where the starter mounts is missing.

 

Have you checked the crank shaft end play lately could that be a cause of the starter & ring gear issue.
Dave ----

 

The engine is still pretty fresh after a complete rebuild. I doubt it has 10,000 miles on it at this point.

 

My 460 starter is located by the piloting diameter riding in that centering hole.
It cant be good for 1/2 the starter to be sitting on the plate and the other corner of the starter to be pinched up against the bellhousing.

Consider repairing the one you have?
It cant be too hard to tack a piece of same gauge metal on there and trace the bellhousing.

 

While you are correct the starter is not touching any part of the separator plate. I have considered repairing it but the last five years it hasn't been an issue.

With that being said I decided to check my solenoid and I found that I'm only getting 10 volts on the starter side. I'm now thinking that the starter isn't getting enough juice to push the gear far enough into the flywheel.

 

So, someone cut the plate out all the way around the starter?
Did they do this to gain an extra bit of engagement?
You have had to change the ring gear?

What kind of starter do you have???
A bendix throws forward *because of* starter rotation.
With a PMGR starter the solenoid throws the gear out *before* the contacts close to power the starter.

Since you say 'on the starter side of the solenoid', I'm assuming the former, since you can't wire a PMGR starter that way without back feed.
If you do have a PMGR, and it is wired after the fender relay... there is your problem.

BTW, the thing mounted on the fender is a relay, not a solenoid.
A solenoid is a device whose primary purpose is to actuate or shift something when energized.

 

I do not have a PMGR starter. I'm not even sure what that is.

It is a solenoid as it actuates the starter when it is energized. There is a plunger in the unit that gets thrust forward (or up) to make contact to send the current along the wire to activate the starter. Below is an example what is on the fender (not the exact design of mine).


The new solenoid and (OEM) starter did the trick. No more grinding on starts or at the finish of the start cycle.

With that being said, the solenoid that I did buy is a piece of crap. It keeps getting stuck open. Hit the key, it activates, turn the key off it's still going. I have to hit it to get it to stop or disconnect the battery. I know it's not the key as when I get the solenoid to disengage it stops the starter. Guess I'm going to have to take it back before I ruin this new starter.

Let this be a lesson, even if you don't think it is start at the beginning of the starter circuit beginning with the battery or you may end up spending way too much money.

Edit: I did look it up and no, it's not a PMGR (or mini high torque) starter. It's a standard OEM starter.

 

I have a pmgr starter (oem after '94)

Check your ground, the fender mounted relays usually weld themselves closed because resistance in the circuit causes a big arc.
Since you just installed the starter I'm going to assume that cable is clean and tight.

Motorcraft and Cole-Hersee used to be the best brands for relays, but I think they're all made "over there" now.

 

Do these ground to themselves through the mount to the fender or are you talking about the battery ground? I can check both. And, yes, this is one from "over there".

 

Not the relay ground (which is always the mounting ears)
The negative battery cable to the engine block.

This is obviously part of the starter circuit too.