I'm replacing the starter in my 312Y block and I've replaced lots of modern starters, but never one like this with the long shaft/springs etc.

And I'm wondering is there some special alignment or fastening/installing instructions regarding getting it installed. It appears that there are 3 starter motor fasteners at the back of the bellhousing and 3 at the front.

I only removed the front fasteners and removed the starter and did nothing with the rear but was wondering if I need to do anything with those rear fasteners when I install the new one? Is there a certain tension between the two? or? similar

Or do I just stick it all back in the front and tighten the 3 front fasteners and all the alignment/tension is taking car of?

Thanks Tom

 

When I replaced the starter on my 239 I just removed the three bolts attaching the starter to the bell housing and slid the new one back in.
Do you have a picture of the fasteners at the back of the bell housing? I don't see that on mine. I'm far from an expert though.
Maybe your bell housing is different than mine.
Here is a picture that I have handy.

 

That's a good question..and yes it is different. I wasn't thinking of it at the time..but my 312 is hooked up to an old 48F1 non synchro 4 speed. I bought the truck(48F1) with the motor and tranny already in.

So at times I'm learning..That's how it is with something modded.

What I found was that the rear "cover" to the starter comes with the aftermarket "adapter" to the 312. I forget the brand..I have a spare adapter..same as the one in the truck..I'll have to look for a name.

I think they were period correct in the mid/late fifties when peeps probably wanted to update their earlier trucks to the then new Y Block..just guessing but probably the case.

Anyway in my case..so far anyway..I needed to remove the rear access to allow room for the install of the longish OEM starter. Once I had it in, I just bolted the rear access closed. The rear access is a kinda elongated cup type affair. And it doesn't seem to actually come into any kind of contact with the starter itself.

But so far I haven't got the new starter working.. I can hear the starter run..but its making zero contact with the flywheel starter gear. I don't yet know the problem? I thought? this oem style starter worked such that the starter gear would "spring" forward so to speak and engage the flywheel when the starter was activated...? Maybe I'm wrong.

This reman starter looks to be about the same as what I removed and I don't recall removing any shims or such..and I can see the starter gear is in fact rear of the flywheel starter gear but its not coming forward to engage it? I'm not sure what the problem is?

I charged the bat and it seems strong..maybe the Neg bat cable is bad..I'll check resistance tomorrow. But I doubt its the problem.

I sent the previous owner and email asking if he had any ideas as to why the problem. We've become Ford friends. He's a Cleveland guy.

I'm probably making a goofy mistake..just not catching it.

 

The Follow-Thru starter uses the inertia of the gear on the end of the motor to hold it 'still' while the armature of the starter motor spins up. As it is not moving, it rides the spiral, and is expected to engage the flywheel gears from that backside, as you noted. If it binds, or doesn't have enough juice fed to the starter motor, or the starter motor is weak due to brush age, or gummed bearings, it can just 'run the motor' and never engage the gears.
If you put the starter motor on the floor of the garage, and PUT YOUR FOOT ON IT, and then connect battery power, I think you will be shocked at the instant twist on the motor. Really really really put your foot on it, or it will rotate out of control. That torque is what makes the gear ride the spiral and engage the flywheel. Needs juice to do it.
tom

 

Good info thanks..maybe not getting enough juice..could be the ground cable..I'll check its resistance this morning. And the solenoid is ancient, but with the multi meter I'm getting 12 volts out..does that mean its good?

I'm not great on trouble shooting electrics, but I think its in this area.

Thanks
Tom

 

Also with this modded/bellhousing adapter and this aftermarket reman starter I see that they've made the "inertia gear" on the starter.. that you mentioned..just a little larger in diameter in this modern version. It could be that its binding some on the modded housing(which might be a little narrower than the OEM)and not able to push the starter gear into the flywheel as needed?

edit: not the actual 9 tooth gear of the starter..but some of that whole rear most assembly of the reman starter It looks a little bigger in diameter.

I need to get somebody under the truck and observe while I give it a try. That would help.

 

I tested the reman starter on the floor with BAT and jumper cables to see what was happening with the starter drive gear, and Nothing was happening.

I tried everything I can think of but the centrifugal gear that is supposed to push the drive gear forward never budged. And the gear appears to be all the way to the rear and just stays there as the starter motor spins all and appears to function as expected. That agrees with my observations as best I can see from beneath looking up at the flywheel and starter installed as best possible. I can see the gear to the rear of the flywheel where it belongs, and it needs to come forward towards the front of the truck, but its not moving at all.

So i took it back to NAPA and asked for help. We discussed it but at the moment they're saying its the reman starter, and will look for a replacemnt. Apparantly as far as this NAPA is concerned they're not certain they can find another. They had this one in their inventory.

So I'll wait to hear from them and look around for other options.

 

Is is possible that the grease or preservative on the starter has turned to glue? If it is old enough, it may need to be cleaned and de-greased, then re-lubed before it will work properly.
They are just too simple a device to require much attention. Did the starter try to twist free when you tested? If not, its the starter itself, or the brushes & armature may need to be cleaned. Or it may have been inoperative from the factory back when...
tom

 

No it didn't particularly try to break free..didn't seem to have much torque if any. I did have my foot on it, but I'm not sure that was needed. It did spin quickly but that's all.

 

I'll repeat. Every time I tested a starter, it about jumped three feet. It wants to turn so bad that you really have to stand on it, and even then it is almost out of control.
If you get no 'kick' like that, it won't have enough power {torque} to rotate the crankshaft, much less get the gears to engage.
They really do twist like the dickens. If it doesn't, either you don't have enough juice flowing or the starter isn't producing for internal reasons. NAPA should have been able to set the starter into their test station, (and strapped it down!!!) and seen it respond to power. I have a memory of watching a test performed, and seeing the operator mash down on a large button to apply the power, this after connecting large clips to the post and to the body of the starter. If you did it yourself, you should have seen sparks flying when you connected to the terminal on the starter.
tom

 

Yes sparks did fly when I connected it to the fully charge BAT, but it never came close to jumping..although i did have my foot planted on it.

And maybe you should tell NAPA about tesing in their "tester" .. I've been back a couple time and they never volunteered??? Ask them. Not me.

Sometimes its not me.. OK

Tom

 

Got a replacement starter from NAPA today/same P/N 76163 for a 57TBird 312 ci and this one worked just fine. No problem. Truck starts.

Maybe it was the other starter..maybe it was me. The other starter was apparantly "partly" or all the way forward...although I don't know because it didn't contact the flywheel so how could it be all the way forward. And anyway I tried to get it to go all the way to the rear..but couldn't or didn't know how. Supposedly one can only get that gear to "go back" in the reman starters anyway..not sure about OEM...by applying voltage with starter on shop floor and holding a wire brush or other against the spinning starter gear..supposedly this combo will get the starter gear to move to the rear, and its the only method that works. I believe them but never succeeded myself.

But this time I was sure not to disturb the starter drive mechanism such that the starter gear was all the way to the rear on install. And like i said no problem.

Thanks for the help

Tom