Well, just what the title says. I have a minor leak/seepage of oil at the HPOP discharge fittings; so I sucked the oil out of the reservoir in preparation for changing the fittings. (I get new high flow fittings from diesel o-rings. It was only slightly more then just the rebuild kit, and saves me the aggravation of dealing with those rings/spacers)

So, here's where my day/week/life gets ruined: Flakes/specks and shavings of aluminum, along with some very fine (almost grain-of-sand like) magnetic debris in the oil.

This pic shows a bunch of debris in the bottom of the cup (vac/pressure brake bleeder kit- works well for sucking out the HPOP) This is only one cup, but I got similar type/quantity of debris out of all 4 cup fulls of oil:




Debris from HPOP reservoir oil. Got this x4 . Mix of aluminum and iron


This some of the pieces on a paper towel. The circle sliver is magnetic (iron). The other visible pieces are aluminum. Some of the scattered little black specks are magnetic as well, but not all.



This is the single largest piece, shown in my gloved hand. Sorry, not much "scale". What worries me about this one is that it seems to have some "structure". Its not just a random sliver, but appears to have a curved "lip" or edge to it, like it belonged to something.



I have a small Gatorade bottle of oil I sucked out. There appears to be more debris in the bottom. I am currently filtering it all through paper towels, but it is very slow going. I'll post another pic later.



So, where is this coming from? The engine seems to run fine. It has plenty of power.

The "idiot gauge" on the dash indicates normal oil pressure. By normal, I mean not only within the gauges printed normal range, but also at the same spot it has been at for as long as I've had the truck; which is at the upper end of the range.
I have no 1211 code or any indication the HPOP is failing.
I could not see anything on the dipstick, as far as any flakes/chunks in the pan,though I realize they just may not be on the dipstick.

 

Yuck! Hopefully it is something simple....

 

The oil pressure gauge is nothing more than an idiot light on a stick. The sender is a switch that closes at 7 psi and puts the gauge in the same place no matter what the pressure is. As for the debris, it could be from anywhere, really.

 

Well, that's the thing. Can it really be from anywhere? There is no way pieces this big can get through the oil filter. So doesn't that limit the options, as to how it finds its way into the HPOP reservoir? I mean, if its pieces of piston ( aluminum), broken rings (iron) or anything like that, its going to go into the pan first, and then how does it it find its way past the filter (oem Motorcraft currently) and all the way into the hpop?

 

The oil in the reservoir doesn't necessarily pass through the oil filter. There's a short circuit valve. It's kind of ambiguous in the service manual as to whether oil supplied from there is sent through the reservoir or directly to the pump somehow. And, it doesn't come right out ans say the oil from the short circuit valve is unfiltered, but it's implied in the last sentence of the quote below. I've never taken the time or had a need to really look into that aspect of it.

 

I would be inclined to look at the debris has probably been there a while and now it's out and it should be Ok.

 

That kind of reads to me like they are saying it bypasses the filter in the HPOP, not the actual oil filter. Otherwise it would mean that the lifters would be getting unfiltered oil as well, and I doubt that would be done intentionally.
Also:
Even assuming the HPOP was getting totally unfiltered oil when cold ( which I don't think it is), that would explain debris in the HPOP, not the reservoir. Also, I have to believe that if that junk was in the "left side valve lifter gallery", there would already be much more serious symptoms.

That's not really a good idea. That stuff is really not supposed to be in there. Aluminum chunks and iron filings are a bad sign. Of what, I don't know yet. But it can't be good.
Also, I have drained the HPOP reservoir twice in the last year. Once to do the IPR, and again when I did the injectors. There was no debris either of those times; so this is something new.


What could be failing/getting "shaved" down, that would produce both aluminum and iron debris?

 

You may want to open the reservoir and check the screen at the bottom it might have a little more of what ever is floating around in the oil. I've had mine off and had a little debris but nothing of consequence. Could the pieces you found be part of what you are using to remove the oil? The aluminum could be from scraping the sides of the reservoir

 

There was no filter in the reservoir when my shop manual was written. That didn't show up until 1999.5.

 

The big chunk could be flash from the die casting process used to make these various aluminum components in the HPOP system. Flash from a parting line.

 

I could maybe buy that for one or two hair like slivers, but not the flakes and big chunk in the photo. It also doesn't explain the iron.
Also, I know this stuff wasn't there about 6 months ago. The truck has 260k on it. Its highly unlikely that casting flash has hung on all this time, only to suddenly come off now, in quantity, 16 years and 260k later.

How could it be the HPOP? The debris is in the reservoir, which is before the HPOP. Am I missing something here? How can oil/debris flow backwards from the HPOP INTO the reservoir, except through the normal "forward" paths, and all the way through the engine, into the pan, and back?

Can someone remind me, and maybe post a diagram, of what exactly the flow path of oil in/out of the HPOP and reservoir is?

 

 

Hmm. Could this be the LPOP going bad and chewing into the front cover (aluminum)?
If the LPOP has worn into the cover some, will a replacement pump be pointless without a new front cover also? Since that would entail removing the oil pan, and everything el$e that goe$ with that, it simply is not an option right now.

Looking at that diagram, it would seem that both the HPOP reservoir (on cold start) and the oil cooler ( all the time) are getting unfiltered oil straight from the pan. So, I;m guessing this means my oil cooler is getting filled with this stuff too. Great......

Sending unfiltered oil into the small passages of the oil cooler seems like an utterly stupid thing to do. What were the International engineers thinking?

 

It's possible for some thread material to be dislodged or broken into the oil.

Every time you remove or replace a bolt, part, etc, it's possible for some material to be taken off- especially any new parts.

Not saying to ignore it, just offering that there is often more debris in fluids than people realize and it tends to accumulate in certain places, including nooks and crannies, not just filters

 

Might want to pull your filter and cut it open to see if similar material there. Hopefully not.
Are you using the same method to pull oil from the res as the last 2 times? If so and none of this material was there previously then pull the LPOP in case it is the problem and prevent further damage.