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Ok to start I have a 1978 f250 4x4 auto with maybe a 6 inch suspension lift and 3 inch body 4:10 gears and 37 inch tires with a rebuilt transmission but the ford 400 is on its last leg it's beginning to tick and the carbs junk no power at all so I'm thinking of options I'm a welder so fabricating is no problem for me but I have just basic mechanical skills
1. Rebuild the 400 how much would it cost and how difficult it is I'd like to raise the compression if I go this route
2. Swap a 460 I hate buying a engine I can't see run but any that have done this is it very simple? And what are tips to buying a motor out of a truck already?
3. Would be nice to have a cummins diesel either a 4 or 6 cylinder would be great since I plan on turning my truck into a welding rig in the future how hard is it and what are the major parts I would need to pull it off and about how much would it cost?
My vote would be put in a Cummins, but that might be a bit overwhelming if this is your daily driver. You could probably do the diesel swap for about $6000
Where did you get your 6in. lift kit and how do you like it?
I have a '78 and faced the same decisions many years back.
It's impossible to know what it is going to cost to rebuild your 400, without having it apart and knowing it's overall condition. In the Portland, Oregon area a complete hair, hide and elbows long block rebuild will run somewhere in the $2500 range. Don't forget to add in all the other things like radiator hoses, tune up parts, etc., all the other things you will want to address with that new shiny engine. I can see another $1,500-$2500 real easy.
Installing a good used 460 might be a bit less, but you will still have additional costs associated with the conversion that you wouldn't have with the 400 rebuild. Depending on the engine you get, the options on your truck and how you choose to install it (fabbed mounts, store bought mounts, exhaust, etc) as well as the items mentioned above it is easy to come up with another $2,500, along with the cost of the 460.
The Cummins option faces the same hurdles you will have with the 460. You are dealing with an engine swap, and it's associated costs.
For my truck I went with the 460 swap, mainly because I had a known good 460 in the shop. I didn't really consider a Cummins swap due to my intended usage of the truck.
If I were faced with the same choices today I would most likely rebuild the 400, as my use of (and for) my truck have changed.
That is a good looking truck.
I'm in the process or upgrading my 400, I haven't really driven it yet, I only bought it last fall. I found locally on Craigslist or online performance parts for cheap. Hooker headers, Edelbrock intake and carb, I just need a cam/lifters now and I'll tear into it to upgrade performance.
I am in a similar boat however, I'd like to swap in a stock motor for my year of truck, but that means a 360/390, 460, or a 300.
The 460 is the only one that will directly bolt up to my transmission.
My vote would be put in a Cummins, but that might be a bit overwhelming if this is your daily driver. You could probably do the diesel swap for about $6000
Where did you get your 6in. lift kit and how do you like it?
I got the lift off a friend that had a parts truck laying around got the bed the lift and the axles for around 600 dollars I think it's not my daily driver for sure I like it especially now I can use military surplus tires
I have a '78 and faced the same decisions many years back.
It's impossible to know what it is going to cost to rebuild your 400, without having it apart and knowing it's overall condition. In the Portland, Oregon area a complete hair, hide and elbows long block rebuild will run somewhere in the $2500 range. Don't forget to add in all the other things like radiator hoses, tune up parts, etc., all the other things you will want to address with that new shiny engine. I can see another $1,500-$2500 real easy.
Installing a good used 460 might be a bit less, but you will still have additional costs associated with the conversion that you wouldn't have with the 400 rebuild. Depending on the engine you get, the options on your truck and how you choose to install it (fabbed mounts, store bought mounts, exhaust, etc) as well as the items mentioned above it is easy to come up with another $2,500, along with the cost of the 460.
The Cummins option faces the same hurdles you will have with the 460. You are dealing with an engine swap, and it's associated costs.
For my truck I went with the 460 swap, mainly because I had a known good 460 in the shop. I didn't really consider a Cummins swap due to my intended usage of the truck.
If I were faced with the same choices today I would most likely rebuild the 400, as my use of (and for) my truck have changed.
Hope this helps. Good luck.
I think rebuilding the 400 or the cummins swap will be the way I go I read somewhere that the 400 actually has more tourqe than the 460 which is pretty neat and i really hate the idea of installing a used motor and starting it up and have it smoke like crazy or something a 4bt or 12 valve would be nice but I need to learn a little more about Diesel engines before I go buy a wrecked truck or a bread truck
Have a neighbor with a 4bt powered dent crew. He will be the first to admit it is an under powered slug. I'm not sure what trans or rear gears he is running.
If you are serious about the Cummins I would stay with a 6 cylinder.
A fairly recent episode of Hot Rod Garage did a Cummins swap into an older Dodge 2wd truck. A quick view might give you a few pointers.
650 looks like a lot of work doing a cummins swap does the tranny I have now work with a cummins its a c6 and a np205 transfer case what are the major parts I'd need? Thanks
Have a neighbor with a 4bt powered dent crew. He will be the first to admit it is an under powered slug. I'm not sure what trans or rear gears he is running.
If you are serious about the Cummins I would stay with a 6 cylinder.
A fairly recent episode of Hot Rod Garage did a Cummins swap into an older Dodge 2wd truck. A quick view might give you a few pointers.
Okay good to know I used to have a wrangler and always thought it would be cool to have a little diesel in it and get 30mpg with it but a wrangler and a f250 are way different
Well, a 460 swapmight be the easiest way to retrofit a repower, but cummins would be cool. Dieselneeds different fuelsupply/return, different electrical system, intercooler, lots and lots of plumbing, maybe a different radiator, fan, really heavy, so a front 60 might be necessary, noisy, smoky, needs an overdrive or tall gears, due to low operating rpm, I would strongly consider 460 or 400 rebuild. put Cleveland heads or better pistons and your 400 will be an animal.
Well, a 460 swapmight be the easiest way to retrofit a repower, but cummins would be cool. Dieselneeds different fuelsupply/return, different electrical system, intercooler, lots and lots of plumbing, maybe a different radiator, fan, really heavy, so a front 60 might be necessary, noisy, smoky, needs an overdrive or tall gears, due to low operating rpm, I would strongly consider 460 or 400 rebuild. put Cleveland heads or better pistons and your 400 will be an animal.
Can I take the old heads and have them turned down a little and have a valve job done would they be just as good as a Cleveland and do they have domed Pistons for a 400?
650 looks like a lot of work doing a cummins swap does the tranny I have now work with a cummins its a c6 and a np205 transfer case what are the major parts I'd need? Thanks
You can get a c6 adapter plate for the Cummins from Destroked, but for the cost of adapters you could be well on your way to a different better tranny.
I don't know what your budget for this is but if you wanted the most affordable Cummins option. I would find a good 5.9 Cummins with a p pump and 5 speed manual. Then get a adapter for the nv4500 to mate to the np205. For the mounts you are probably as far ahead to build your own. I haven't really heard of any good reviews for the aftermarket engine mounts for these trucks. You will want to run an intercooler from a 7.3 power-stroke super-duty since they fit good in these trucks. Also an important thing to note is that in order for the Cummins to fit you will have to cut the heck out of the front cross-member that runs under the oil pan in your truck now. If your interested look around here on the forum. There are a lot of excellent builds with Cummins swaps for instance bryanmartin and co425.
It really boils down to what you want and how far you are willing to go. The diesel would be really cool and get half decent fuel mileage, but is going to be really involved and by far expensiver than a gas engine.
Either way let us know what you decide to do and good luck.
Just watch how high you go with your compression ratio. For a truck that's used as a truck and not a racer/bogger/sled puller, its advisable to keep it under 9.5:1 compression ratio.
Iron heads don't deal well without high octane gas and the correct timing.
Like I said, I am working on my own 400 motor upgrades. 400 Daily Driver Upgrades -- OFCC.com
There is some interesting findings on there like this.
Originally Posted by somethingclever
Here was my last setup:
heads decked .030
stock valvetrain with .030 lash caps
summit k5200 cam kit
chassis exit headers and duals
performer intake
750 holley
straight up timing set
16 initial 36 total all in by 3000 - no vacuum advance - 93 octane
This setup dyno'd (mustang chassis dyno) 240rwhp/355rwtq through the T18, NP205, D60, and 32" tires.
I figured about 350hp/450ft-lbs at the crank.
with 3.55 rear gear and 37" tires would avg 10-11mpg with my best being 12mpg.
he 400 was designed as a high torque, low RPM engine that was a smaller, more efficient and lighter alternative for the big Ford 385 engines, the 429 and 460, for use in Ford's medium and large size cars. Weighing just 80% of a similar big-block,.....
The development of the 400 V8 led to a significant design flaw that remained with the engine throughout its production life. With a longer stroke, the compression ratio became excessively high with the 351-2V heads and flat top pistons. Ford engineers reduced the compression ratio by using a piston with a compression height that was too short and this lead to an excessive deck clearance of 0.067" compared to a 351-2V at 0.035" .[20][25] In 1971, this method of reducing compression was sufficient due to the higher octane leaded fuels. However, once lower octane unleaded fuels became used the excessive deck clearance lead to problems with detonation. For 1975, Ford dealt with this problem by decreasing the compression ratio further with a larger 15cc piston dish and reducing ignition timing. However the 400 V8 obtained a reputation for being prone to detonation.[20] Although Ford did not make a piston to correct this, TMeyer Inc worked with Keith Black pistons to make a 400 piston that increases the compression ratio and gives the piston a "zero deck" deck clearance.[26]
If your thinking of rebuilding your 400 zip over to the 335 engine series forum here. It's pretty informative. I built mine using the T Meyer Pistons, good cam,intake, carb and headers. I'm sure you will be impressed with the performance. On the other hand a nice built 460 or cummins would be pretty bad *** also. Good luck.
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